Madison

If you are still looking for a great game thats not do counter dense, to rules heavy and is fun try GMT's Barbarossa to Berlin. I have fallen in love with this game. I have been board gaming since early 80's... (doesn't seem that long)... gosh im getting old.. :-( I've played a lot of Panzer Blitz back in the day, some early Squad Ldr, Blitzkrieg, GDW's Europa series, GMT's operations stuff, even some of the Gamers WW2. and yes some of the Milton Bradley's AA and AH's A3R. Of all these I have grown very fond of GMT's From Barbaross to Berlin. Its a great game, plays different each time, is card driven and a load of fun. No counter density, easy rules and lots of enjoyment. As I understand it, there is a lot of online gaming going on where you use a graphical version of the game and online dice rollers or something to that effect. The guy I am playing against on Wednesdays is in a few online ones also. Anyways..... http://www.gmtgames.com/nnbb/main.html Hope this helps John [ July 02, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Madison ]

Hello everyone Its been months since I have been on these forums and this place is hopping!.. I see lots of threads about SC2... some lengthy game reports and news of ladders. Can someone give me the 25 cent tour on whats the deal with the following: Bidding for games. Does no one play SC straight up? Do the Germans always win when played by capable players when the allies don't get points? If bids are the norm, whats a good bid for a average players? PBEM? Cheating with reloads? Is that the turn off to that form of game? How far away is SC2? Ok sorry for redundant questions here, I hope one of you has a few minutes to give me a cliffs notes version so I don't have to sift through 100's of threads. Best John [ July 03, 2003, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Madison ]

I realize that probably 75-80% of the whermacht was in the east, yet I still think that there was a bit more in the other theaters, in particular the west as the war progressed (Diep) more and more garrisons were being allocated and this was becoming a drain on the manpower that was ever so needed in the east. John

I think the problem is that either side must more or less telegraph the amphib invasion so the enemy has ample time to react, thus ruining the effect and impact. The exception to his is a DOW followed up by an immediate landing. The turns represent about a week to two weeks roughly, an amphib should be able to embark and land on the same turn. This would definately add the suprise element back in that is needed. One could disallow any sea borne invasions during bad weather (winter) and desinate certain hexes as unrealistic (mountains and rough coasts), and thus un-invadeable. Perhaps combat could take place by landing boats and coastal defenders which represents fighting ashore so to speak. The cheese element is just moving units to block and killing the entire enemy fleet off with air. Perhaps another element would be to create dummy boats with "phantom" armies (less cost) e.g., Calais, and dupe the enemy. Maybe some reaction element is possible to allow coastal defenders to move to block or something, where otherwise they are froze in place but thats sorta gamey too.. What I hate is when western Europe can more or less be defended with a skeleton crew of corps units, and really not worry about it. They just do the coastal slide and block a 10 boat invasion pretty effectively. SC NEEDS A MULBERRY as a temp port. Even if the allies manage to get ashore, the Op movement is a piece of cake to reinforce at will off the the east front. I think if the amphib was cleaned up a bit and perhaps the ability to operational move units where they should not be able to get to would help a lot. Hope these ideas help.... John [ November 05, 2002, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Madison ]

I have done some hot seat at my shop with 2 different people. I have managed to beat them, so far as to say that I can take France, but its damn hard vs a human. You stick any unit out that can be surrounded/attacked on 3 sides and it usualy dies. ;\ Problem vs humans is the time tables favor the allies. Most people can hold onto France longer than any AI. The economics of the early game favor the allies sleightly and buying time is not so difficult. If Russian can come in on a human vs human game soon after the Fall of France then chances are the Germans are not fully lined up on the east to take advantage of it. In the east vs a human I play a run away defense and sit corps in the border cities and try not to move my armies in the interior to build up entrenchment, but after teh full brunt of the axis comes to bear, its hard to have staying power. Its funny,.... once one part of the Soviet line cracks, it all comes down like a house of cards and you have to run, leaving road blocks and hope you can reform a line or the Siberian Transfer comes. By then I am desperately trying to establish a west front. Actually in my last hot seat game, Im breaking out of Denmark as the allies with lots of resistence and barely hanginging on with the Russians.... I have the attention of about 1/3 of the total german OB on diverted to the west so its helping but may not be in time. I am up for some PBEM or TCP if anyone wants a game to beat me up in. John

Hubert, I would like to offer my time in the hopes of getting to beta any future SC release as in SC2 if it ever moves into a test stage... I like the game and have been playing board games for to long. John

Perhaps you are right, but after thinking about it, I don't see the map being big enough to add coastal territorial waters into the game.. To bad there is not a map editor that allows you to design your own maps and even increase the scale or what not. That would be cool... you could add in all of the US, add some depth to Egypt/Africa and extend Scandanavia to the arctic circle allowing for Murmansk to come into play. Hubert: Have you considered having any type of holding box that the allies can allocate surface fleets to protect MPP's from getting sunk by uboats? Sorta like the Third Reich ASW box. Just another random idea..... Peace John

I have found a nice little caveat in the AI's thinking that really works to the German advantage. Basically once the U.S. is in the war, and moving troops to Britain etc. or are in the process of landing, the German play need send 1 HQ 2 Inf armies and maybe a corps to America and its over. These units can slip out undetected from the south/west France and land without any difficulty. The AI will keep the bulk to US troops in Britain and even the air and not worry about its home turf at all. The US economic base is so low at 180 that any occupation really makes it impossible to counter. Even a few corps purchases are not enough to save the nation. Once the US falls, Canada is a cakewalk and then you have Britain by the throat, even while your knee deep in Russia. Perhaps the US economic base needs to increase every turn and they need to garrison the coast or something. It would be nice to have a coastal sea zone area around each nation that is protected waters and as I have said in a previous post is inaccessible by a foreign naval power until war is declared. This would prevent the surprise amphibious invasion forces from parking along the coast then declaring war and landing. Just food for thought.... John

I just finished a game as axis and it ended in May of 1945. I had a score of 329. In order I invaded Poland, Denmark, France, Sweeden, Norway, Yugoslavia (after Hungary, Rummania & Bulgaria joined). Then I drove into Russian in Oct 1941. The U.S. joined same turn. I kept digging in USSR and made some ok progress and I bogged down some as my supply tether extended near Rostov, Leningrad Line. Finally I broke a few cities and began the wrapping and severing of units. In summer 43, the allies tried to land in the west and were repelled. I had build up 6 air fleets and some corps. Was playing the air dance and kept them off me. By 44, I counter invaded the US and Canada and won fairly quickly as many American units were sunk on ship or stuck in Britain. Late 44 Russia surrenderd and I rebuild my navy and all the while just poured corps onto mainland England. After 4-5 turns it crumbled due to tons of air and a blockade of about 15 ships and a huge wolfpack force just for fun. I guess expert is next.... Any advice on expert??

I used the Norse plan and invaded Italy with France, and thus defeated Germany in June 42. The Soviets were as far as the low countries, the US about 60% and I allowed a French unit to occupy Berlin to end it. The map looks pretty cool all blue.!!! John

Not really a SC issue but its on the far end of detail and nitty gritty, almost unplayable imo. I have a copy of OAW and loaded up Barbarossa, OMG its huge and would take longer than playing a turn of Europa (Fire in the East) with real counters.... I guess my point is that SC is a nice game due to the fact that its playable and you can finnish it in one sitting. I would love to see something inbetween OAW and SC.. Perhaps a SC2??? One thing I think would help SC some would be territorial waters arounnd each nation, like light blue sea zones that can not be entered unless you are at war. This prevents the amphib stacking along a nations coastline then declaring war and getting a supprize armada invasion. John

I have researched rockets to level 5 and was not impressed with them. I find that your money is better spent on heavy bombers and long range aircraft. If you want to level a city heavy bombers are the way. If you just want to destroy everything, get tech in fighters and invest in your air. It will reap great benefits. John

Norse, That is a very innovative strategy, but very risky. I tried this versus a computer at the default difficulty and it worked like 1 out of 5 times. Sometimes the carriers don't hit or the fighter don't hit or even the battleship. It seems to me that everything has to fall into place for this French Strat to work. If it doesn't, you are way out of position to prevent a disaster. One time I destroyed Rome's unit but could not get a unit to occupy and it was a mess. The AI oped a guy right in and I was done. However when it does work, Germany is through. The entire med is a French lake, and they can easily hold Germany at bay in time for for Britain to keep building and the game is over. John

I think air is all to powerful. It basicly dominates the AI and seems to me to be the deciding factor in hot seat games. I could not have taken France from my human opponent without no less than 4-5 air fleets. One time playing AI which I have whipped except for expert, I had the Italians with level 5 long range aircraft and level 5 bombers and I was shelling the U.S. from Spain/Portugal!!!! It was grand!! Each hit did like 5 damage and 2 bombers was all it took to Dresden each American city to 0. At that point I just quit buying units it was ridiculous, I had like 10,000 MP's accrued and didn't need to spend any more. I was even disbanding most of the units out of bordom of moving them. Its odd, I have been able to beat the AI on intermediate but one game I am in the allies landed in 42 in France and have blasted my corps there to dust with like 5-7 air units, 2 carriers and a Jutland sized surface fleet. I could not keep a unit in Brest more than 1 turn. It would get shelled to death. I must of lost 1/2 of all my casualties in the game to Air alone. I was trying to keep up page on the meat grind in the east with only 350ish money per turn. Depressing but I am almost through 1944 and still on Soviet soil by a few hexes. I have pushed the allies back to brest but I spend everything down to 0 dollars trying to keep units alive. That kinda turned into a book, sorry for the length of post but again, AIR is very powerful, and I like the idea of dropping readiness or even reducing movement or making operational movement restricted some how? John

I would highly recommend a few books by David Glantz, in particular, When Titans Clashed. http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/glawhe.html Its a great read and I feel it is a bit above the Alan Clarke account, as I have read both and enjoyed both. Best John

I have whipped the PC's ass pretty much a cake walk on beginner. I have beating it up on next level up and have yet to play it on top AI level. I have played a Human in 1vs1 and was the Germans. It took me forever to knock France out, but I did. My German navy got mauled as the Brits sortied into the Baltic with the bulk of their fleet. However my airforce which I have build a lot of saved me and I must of sunk like 4 ships with it alone. Plus Air is so key against a human, because you can dig into a 2 deep line with it. The hardest thing for me was getting the first hex into France proper and holding it. I could take any hex but not hold it. Finally I think the economics took effect and I was just able to out buy replacements and stay stronger. Bad part is the Russians were in about a turn after I managed to redploy the bulk of my army to the east. Since the British Navy was so active it was hardly a force in by end of 41, so I counter invaded Britain proper and get about 8 units on shore and have cut off London. We are not done and a long war in Russia is raging so I don't expect much unless I knock Britain out before the U.S. gets in. Well just my 2 cents Peace John

Gentleman, I think all of you make interesting points, and there is truth in literally each of them. I have enjoyed reading through the thread. So, I'll add my 2 cents for what its worth. There are many reasons, perhaps hundreds of reasons, why World War 2 ended as it did. I would like to think that one of the most contributing factors that led to the early success and later failures of the war for the Germans was Adolf Hitler. Much of his gambles paid off in the early years and were an extension of his political agenda (and gambles) during the thirties. As the war progressed, the stakes became higher and higher, and the absolute ruler of Germany, "let it ride" a few to many times. The German army won its greatest victories with its early equipment, and considerably modest firepower (as compared to the later army). This helps support the theory that tactics, operational co-ordination between the arms (blitzkrieg) and the decisiveness, leadership and independence of its field officers became the winning ingredient against often numerically superior foes, who were neither defecient in similar weaponary or outproduced by the nazis. The arms race to get the tech edge was driven by battelfield experiences and lessons learned. This can not be better expressed in the developement of tanks by the Germans, Soviets and to an extent the U.S. Anyways, there are many strategies and theories, all of which I would love to write a thesis on, but this is a game forum for SC and if I remember a thread started by U-Boats. Regardless SC has transparent layer or benefit to its players, in that it has sparked such a wide range of interesting armchair discussions. Well for brevity sake I will end my little 2 cents with a few book recommendations I have enjoyed and a few games if your also a die hard counter pusher: Books When Titans Clashed The Forgotten Soldier Hitlers Panzers East Games GMT-Barbaross series Europa Advanced Third Reich War in Europe Best John [ July 26, 2002, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Madison ]

Thanks. J.

Hello, I have been a long time fan of Clash of Steel and grand board games etc. Anyways, I own a game hobby shop and have been playing the demo at "work" and it has drawn the attention of several local gamers. All of whom have been wearing the demo out. When this comes out will it be in a download version only? Or can you get a traditional box/cd of it. If the latter is true, will their be any reseller support or terms? I could probably move 2-3 copies of this not including one I will buy for myself. How soon before the gold demo?? HURRY please. Thanks John