An interesting and discussion so far. Hope we can keep it fair and open.
Gunsligr3, I actually agree on many of the things you're saying, i.e on a pure economical-technical level. However, this discussion is more than anything which ideological standpoint you have. Because I think most of us can agree on that the American way (read USA), has got the most effective economic system in world, if you are solely looking at creating lots of money in the country as whole. But will it be a society which will be the most fair society to live in for all people living it? What is fair one may ask? Well, for one thing we all know that noone had the chance to decide in what country he or she should be born in. That alone, should make you understand that a decent welfare system which will embrace all citizens is the most decent way to go (yes, my post is more of a philosophical nature). Of course it won't be as optimized or effective as in a true capitalist system, but it should make sense to most people and therefore, you will see less of different sorts of social problems - crimes, riots etc. This too, has a price you know, not only an economical one.