Mike D

I extremely curious how Moon's latest Sherman that tried to move during turn 8 got immobilized????? He seems to think (and apparently rightly so?) that the shot came from the Panther and hit the house. Granted the tank was pretty close to the house but if it was only an HE round, as Moon believes, how did it manage to immmobilize the Sherman????? Another lucky shot of some sort???????????????????? I'll say it right now, I find this to be extemely suspicious. In fact it wreaks of one of my biggest pet peeves with Close Combat III where tanks are actually blown up on the far side of buildings by HE shells that detonated in the building. Certainly something this rediculous didn't happen here since the tank is only immobilized. However, I would say that IMHO it really doesn't make much sense that even this happened!!! If anything the crew might have been stunned a little by the sheer closeness of the blast in the adjacent house. But for secondary "house shrapnel" flying away from the center of the house to strike the Sherman and do any real damage to it...............I find that really hard to believe. Even if the shot was an AP round which is entirely possible I guess (maybe the Panther was just lying in wait in ambush mode to fire at the first tank it saw moving????) it still seems highly unlikely that an AP round that obviously struck and then detonated in the house could have caused much damage to the Sherman. Needless to say I'm quite puzzled about what happened here. Hopefully there is a good explanation and/or it is a bug and it will get fixed. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester

"As for your method of clearing the road.. It's pretty much what I do except that if I do run a squad right up the middle it WILL be slaughtered if there are any infantry guarding the road..." What about splitting the point squad into two half squads. Have one bound forward say 10-20m w/ the other one covering. 1st half squad then stops and assumes fire positions and second half squad then move past them and stops 10-20m ahead and so on. I assume CM's orders structure allows something along these lines??? Maybe not? Maybe it should? "One thing to also bear in mind that the infantry on either side are working their way through HEAVY WOODS and thus they are going VERY slowly." Yes, and I don't imagine the fact that there is snow on the ground in those woods is helping to speed things up any either. "Anyways, forget the way other games do it and remember what happened in real life in CM, That's the best advice I can give you.. If its a bad idea to do it in real life then CM WILL punish you for doing it which is really a pretty high compliment. This is what is going to make CM oh so cool to play. I absolutely can't wait to get a hold of this game. Let's see, between having 3+ weeks vacation, taking some sick leave here and there, a supposed death or two in the family, etc. I should be able to sit home and play for over about a month and a half straight! I'd better go and start stocking up on the beer and brats now! At least the beer, you can never have enough of that around now can you? I wonder how well I'll be able to play the game if I get plastered??? Probably have about the same result as if I were really in command and got plastered before a battle. I.e. not a very good idea I would imagine.

Can previously split squads be recombined if they are later brought back together???? Seems like this should be possible. Mike D aka Mikester

Another thing I hadn't really paid much attention to up to this point is that little river/stream sticking down from the north edge of the map. If it's a stream can you get your Puma / HT's across it? Or are you going to have to move your infantry across it to clear the north side of the map??? Will definitely be something to hinder your clearing the northern flank! Mike D aka Mikester

Fionn, I see what you mean about clearing the woods. Makes sense and is probably exactly what I would be doing as well. Guess I was thinking at least down in the south that you were already at the edge of the woods, so it might be a good time to make some kind of a move w/ your HT's and some infantry. If you are not there yet maybe dismount your grenadiers from the HT's and "run" one squad (or split off a half squad) at a fairly good pace right up the road to the edge of the woods. Take 1 each of the other two squad and have them 50-100m behind and off to either side in the woods at a slightly slower clip to make a quick clearing of the woods (or as quick as they can move through there on foot). For some heavy fire support to deal w/ anything that is found up ahead follow the main squad up the road w/ a single HT about 25-50m behind and keeping pace w/ the line of the advancing infantry on either side in the woods w/ the stug and remaining HT's following at the same pace starting 25-50m behind that. I know it isn't as easy as this, but I guess I'm not one to have a great deal of patience sometimes. CM will probably break me out of that mold and make me a little more cautious though from the sounds of things! Anyway, I believe it was Patton that time and again said something to the affect that a commander can take some calculated risks and advance to take the enemy by surprise and perhaps gain the initiative in which case the battle might be won all the sooner, Or, he can plod along and be cautious but get embroiled in a nasty slug fest where he might take just as many, and in some cases even more, casualties vs. having acted more aggressively. For now, given the rather strong US forces blocking your relief group and the fact that you are having to move through the woods (which are at a minimum laced with some minor ambushing forces) I think you are doing everything by the book which is probably a really good idea. However, once you get those forces to the edge of those wooded areas and can move ahead w/o fear of getting a road blocked then you will have to think seriously about jumping into some of your HT's and yelling "charge!!!!!!!!!". Mike D Aka Mikester

Major Moon (kinda has a certain ring to it doesn't it? There's a pun hidden in there somewhere too I think ), Bummer losing your best AT assest, ie the Jumbo. Not to metion some of your other Shermans as well. But it sounds like the town is ripe to fall (gauging Steve's comments above here), so maybe things are not so bad. Only question now is when (and if) are those reinforcements going to arrive! I think they might very well spell the difference here between victory, or defeat, for the US. Up and at em, time to go kick Fionn Wittmann's you know what! Mike D aka Mikester

Fionn, I wasn't thinking of rushing forward like a bull w/ your armour. In fact I was thinking of pushing forward hard w/ some of your HT's and infantry to accomplish exactly what you are worried about, namely clearing the woods and hills on either of your flanks. Sure some of the HT's might get hit by an as yet hidden tank, or a bazooka, or a hidden AT gun. But so what. You lose a little, but you ferret out these pests and can then deal with them accordingly. Plus you accelerate your relief advance to the village which I think will be key to winning this game. In addition, you also avoid plodding along and making it easy for Martin to target you with his artillery. You may also be making it easier for him to redeploy his AT assets to cover the fire lanes which may very well not be covered now as a result of the loss of a number of his tanks. I'm not saying rush forward with everything you have, just that it would seem to be something that should be given some serious consideration, especially on the flanks. Move that infantry and a couple of support HT's on up and see what happens. Might beat the heck out of having an artillery barrage rain down on the them and having them annihilated! (It sounds like you have already found this out perhaps) Anyway, just some thoughts. It's always interesting to see how people play different situations. And even more so, to get to talk to them about it as they do so. Since most of the time you are actually playing the game and you can't really talk to anyone, except for your opponent whom you can't say much to without giving something away, or vice versa. Needless to say it will be interesting to see how this one plays out. Best of luck. Mike D Aka Mikester

Kevin, "Your site lists the hardware requirements for Windows system as a P500. What's a P500. have a Pentium 1 233mhz w/mmx, I've herd of Pentium II and of course, Pentium 3's (PIII) are out now, but I don't know what a P500 is." Nowhere does it say "P500". What it does say is "(P5)". P5 is an earlier designator used by some people out there to refer to an orginal Pentium class Intel processor (i.e Pentium I if you want to call it that). What BTS probably should do to make things clearer is just say Pentium 133Mhz processor w/ vidoe card, or Pentium 200Mhz processor without one. "It also seems like you will need a 3D card to run this game, is that correct? (I don't have one, don't want to buy one)." Your are correct here. I'll appoligize in advance if I sound rather terse in my response here, but………… It's high time for yourself and everyone else out there to step up to the plate and buy the hardware necessary to play high tech games like CM. Sure, they say you don't need one, but I think your going to find you do, or at least that you wished you had. The game will most likely play much better with one vs. w/o one. And they don't cost that much either (a TNT first generation board like a Diamond Viper 550 can be had for way under $100 now! Is it top of the line? No. Is it way better than not having a 3d card? YES!). The reason I'm being terse is there seem to be a lot of people out there that don't want to buy one, but then turn around and slam BTS and other game companies because they think the graphics in the game don't look so great (not saying you did this, but there are those that have). Well friends and neighbors, if BTS wasn't having to play to the lowest common denominator, i.e people playing with machines like 166 Mhz Pentiums without video cards (that quite frankly should be dontated to your local preschool or church IMHO ), then they could make what I believe would be some significant improvements to the game. Could they do everything that most people would like to see, probably not. But then, they could do more than what they can do now! Like Charles and Steve have said time and again, to really do things up "right" we are going to have to wait for machines and video cards to evolve another 3-5 years. Then we will have some real power. The kind that's needed to push millions, upon, millions, of polygons in the blink of any eye and truly give us what we all want. Anyways, this is all just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. Regards, Mike D Aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 08-25-99).]

Now that Martin is in trouble what happens if Fionn's relief force front line moves past an area where US reinforcements might arrive later? If the road edge location, etc., that they are supposed to arrive at is totally in enemy territory do they still come into play, or are they lost??? I can think of a couple of arguements each way on this one, just curious how CM handles such situations. Mike D aka Mikester

Fionn, Now that you have perhaps gained the upper hand in knocking out a number of Martin's tanks, including a Jumbo, do you plan to accelerate your relief forces movement toward the village to prevent it from falling into enemy hands? Or make any other changes to your original plan? I realize that caution is in order. However, there are also times when caution and lack of action / moving forward can cost you later too! Just curious on your thoughts of adpating your original plan as the situation unfolds. Mike D aka Mikester

Charles, "Weak armor locations, aka "critical hits". These are those few spots on any armored vehicle where the effective armor strength is below normal. Typically they are around any place in which there's a "hole" (even if plugged up) in the armor - a structural weakness - like a coaxial MG mount, or a vision port/block, etc. Any hit on a tank has (roughly) a 1% chance of hitting one of these weak spots, and the armor strength is reduced by as much as 50%." If this is really what happened to Martin's Jumbo I have absolutely no problem with it occurring. Critical hits were discussed here on the board some time ago and I think they very much so belong in the game as they actually did occur in combat, albeit not too often, as you have stated. I think it just caught everyone a little by surprise is all. Mike D aka Mikester PS: Thx for posting the armor penetration diagrams! [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 08-25-99).]

Dave I'm pretty darn sure there is a generator as this has been discussed before. Not sure about all the details on it, or whether it will have all the flexibility (i.e. what parameters can be set, etc.) you describe though. Mike D aka Mikester

I'm scratching my head w/ Ben and Pix on this one. How did the Stug get the better of the Jumbo? Just plain luck? How did it get two shots off? Was the Jumbo's turret turned the wrong way??? Would also like to see the penetration diagrams for both tanks vs. it's respective opponent, if possible just to get a feel for who should have come out on top in this one. In any event it looks like my initial prediction on this battle is coming truer all the time. The US forces are getting into some real trouble. Martin had better hope those reinforcements show up quick and/or his 105mm artillery does some massive damage to Fionn's HT's and PanzerGrenadiers approaching from the west. Thanks, Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 08-25-99).]

Stupid question. Why are neither of the two Shermans that have been hit smoking, burning, etc.????? Mike D aka Mikester

Steve, Roger on the thanks part, I'll send a message to Patrick over on the other board. My curiosity is killing me here. What are the acuatual numbers of reinforcements that either side might receive and the probability that they will even show up???? Which leads me to another question. How flexible is the scenario design tool in terms of setting conditions for the probabilities of reinforcements showing up, or other events? For example, taken the game in progress, let's say that Fionn totally shreds Martin's tank force and rolls westaward toward the river. If I had designed the scenario I would possibly liked to have increased the chances of US tank reinforcements showing up triggered on either total loss of all US tanks, and/or, the Germans advancing to a hypothetical N to S line one the map by any sooner than turn 10 say. This would reflect local US forces calling back to regiment or division saying they are getting torn to pieces and they desparately need help, or something to that effect. I would think higher level command would be much more likely to send some reinforcements from their reserves to help fix such a situation much more readily if things were going bad (i.e. US tanks are all destroyed, or German forces advance to the west way to quickly) vs. if everything was going all right for the US boys and there were not any problems to speak of. In any event, I would very much like to see some ability in the scenario design editor to set up some fairly complex criteria for whether or not reinforcements show up, the probability of them showing up, etc. Same might apply to allowing additional artillery fire missions from initially deployed FO's and available batteries if things start to go bad, etc. FWIW The Op Art of War has some very powerful ways to set up conditions that add great variety to the game. While I'm not looking for something quite that extensive here (although it would be nice) I would hope that there would be a few tools in there to help set up some special conditions, etc. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester

The Panthers claw lashes out and "scratches" on Sherman. I love it. It almost seems too easy. But then Fionn has been playing it pretty safe so far. Mike D aka Mikester

I thought this unit surrendered way too easily as well. Considering there are not enemny units in the immediate vicinity for it to surrender to it doesn't seem to make much sense. Would make much more sense for it to break and run or just go to ground and find the best cover and cower. Sounds like you are already working on a fix though. And BTW, IMHO folks should stick to posting comments regarding the battle in their appropriate places so: 1) I and everyone else don't have to go looking all over for them and more importantly, 2) Fionn or Martin don't come out here reading on the board and accidently run across something that they shouldn't see! Regards, Mike D aka Mikester

Steve, Mission accomplished. Netscape now works for the CM page over at thegamers.net. Thanks. Mike

As far as unit maginfications go I believe Martin said he had his set on 3x (for tanks anyways), though I could be mistaken. Mike D aka Mikester

Good to see the spotting was turned down. Seemed kind of unrealistic to be able to spot so many units so fast/easily. And I have no doubt that Fionn has a few surprises in store as this one unfolds. Should be extremely interesting to say the least. Mike D aka Mikester

Herr Major Fionn, Question concerning results of turn1: Curious if you issued any "special" orders to your spotting/sharpshooter units in the town that sighted such a large number of US vehicles on turn 1, to be in "look out" mode or something. Or did you just get lucky to spot so many US vehicles on the very first turn when only 1 of them actually fired at your approaching relief force??? As you have stated in your turn 1 battle report, I don't think the fact that this has happened bodes well for the US commander as I would suspect this will allow you to carefully manuever the Panther and Stug with much less worry of ambush (since positions of many of the US vehicles are already known) into positions to pick-off each of the US units in succession just as you had orginally planned. Of course he will and probably should move them, but I assume that he doesn't know the others have been spotted besides the one that opened fire on your advancing force. So he might sit still just long enough for your stug or panther to move into position having clear LOS to one of the US vehicles and of being reasonably assured of having only a one on one confrontation (i.e. other US tanks/vehicles don't have LOS back to you) in which case you will most likely hold the upper hand (esp. if it's with the Panther and at longer range). Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 08-23-99).]

Steve, Thanks for having them look into it. Wasn't sure if the river was frozen enough to allow passage of Shermans over it, or not. Or for that matter even if it was if it can support the weight of a tank. If the bridge is the only way over there for the Shermans I can see why it would be insane to try and advance there. Better to have the US tanks face the oncoming German relief force. Except………………. That being the case I'm a little surprised that Martin didn't "hide" (from the oncoming relief force that is) one of his tanks (maybe even two of them for the first couple of turns, behind different houses w/ different LOF's into the town) behind one of the houses just across the river to protect its arse and then turn it back facing the town along the line of advance of one of his main attack routes to open up on any German MG's or other strong points that might start harrasing his advancing infantry. It appears that there is at least one building to the far left of the US central setup zone just below the main road leading to the bridge where this would have been possible (i.e. clear LOS into the center and lower portions of the town) and would support a major assault from a force advancing from the lower left corner on the German right flank. From such a position I might very well have even gone ahead and pre-targeted a suspected house or other building in the town along the line of advance of my troops and gone ahead and started pummeling it with 75mm HE on turn 1 (I assume CM allows this type of targeting???). If nothing else I would highly suspect this would surpress the h*** out of any Jerries lying in wait in said house / building to ambush my advancing troops. Next turn tell it to target the next most likely building, and so on, until some of the defenders like an MG start to open up on my advancing troops as they move further towards/into the town and then let them have it with the tank! The more I think about it I probably would have only assaulted one side of the town w/ the tank in support and called in smoke w/ artillery FO on the middle of the town on turn 1 to block LOS of Germans on the other side. Then hit them hard with one solid punch on their right flank and overwhelm them together w/ the supporting tank. Being spread so thin I don't think the Germans could stand up very well to such a thrust. And if they try to shift their forces over from the top/north side of the town it will just make it that much easier for the second (albeit smaller) attack force that I would be holding back in the upper right corner to make their advance from the other side. I'm sure it's not that easy, but that's probably the way I'd have played this one if I were the US commander. Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 08-23-99).]

Steve, Didn't want to post this to Martin so I'll ask here first just in case you think these questions might give too much away to him. 1) Why did the Americans not use smoke and/or artillery fire on the town for at least a turn to help soften it up and or block the Fallschrijagers fields of fire along the US troops line of advance??? 2) Not sure where Martin has his bazooka teams exactly, but I'm surprised that he didn't place any tanks on the reverse slopes of any of the hill areas that one would highly expect at least part of the German forces to advance on and take. Doing so w/ some infantry in support might have provided Fionn w/ a very nasty ambush from which he might not have been able to recover. My prediction is that the Germans will win. The US appears that they are going to take too many losses taking the town and with all of their tanks already spotted on turn 1 Fionn can easily work around them and position his Panther or Stug to carefully pick them off 1 by 1. One nasty thing about this game is I expect Martin doesn't even know that they've all been spotted! In any event I think that the only way the American's can achieve better than a draw is if they receive their reinforcements and the German one's don't show up, or show up too late to make any difference. Mike D aka Mikester

Steve, Just curioius, how many Panzerfaust's do the Falschrimjager chaps in the town have??? Reason I ask is that I'm curious if Martin rushes the town to take it like some have suggested; I'm wondering what the Shermans that would certainly support such an attack might run up against. Both infantry and Shermans are not going to be too happy to find those flamethrowers in there either. Could be messy for the US boys if they are not careful. Of course, as you and others have already said, the German relief force isn't going to have it easy either. Should prove to be an interesting game! Mike D aka Mikester.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggg!!!! Steve, can we get the folks over at thegamers.net to fix things so Netscape will work to read the battle reports? I've never had these kinds of problems over there before so I guess I'm not sure why I can't see the battle reports over there now??? And I absolutely detest Internet Explorer, so hopefully something can be done to fix whatever is wrong. In any event, thanks for doing this. This is fantastic, gives all the rest of us some insight into what the game is really like that has, well, been lacking up to this point. Mike D aka Mikester