[Console CM...]

Originally posted by Soddball:

Not relevant to this discussion. Mhz is not an adequate way of calculating processing speed - consider other factors, such as data transfer speed on the DVD/hard disk channels, bus speed of CPU, Mhz of RAM.

It may not be relevant to the discussion, but my statement was there to address the view that consoles were underpowered, which had been mentioned by someone.

Originally posted by Soddball:

I am also puzzled about your statement at the beginning about CMBO:

1) saying that BFC would have to make stable code that didn't crash.

2) saying that BFC would have to make an in-game walkthrough to summarise a 150-page manual.

Firstly, I don't have any problems running CM. It doesn't crash. My machine crashes because of Microsoft (*cough*X-Box*cough*).

Secondly, how can you create an in-game walkthrough to demonstrate, amongst other things:

The controls

Navigating around the CM map

Obtaining detailed unit information

Issuing orders

Different terrain types

Direct fire and Area fire

LOS

Button-up

Ammunition levels

Suppression

Hand-to-hand combat

Hull-down

Armour penetration

Armour types

Command Delay

Command Range

Leadership abilities

Morale

Fanatic troops

Experience

Fatigue

Fog of war

Spotting

Air Support

That's up to page 80 out of a 150-page manual.

Ye gods - you'd need another CD! :eek:

You aren't being realistic. The 'big bucks' will go into the pockets of the big companies. "Loans" from the big companies to small software houses sound like a fun way to go.

Finally - console games are overpriced. Who wants to see another £20 stuck onto the price of CMBB, so that it can be converted onto a console format?[/QB]

The captured crew bug (well documented) creates a fatal crash in about 10% of my tcp/ip games (the only way I play). If you haven't had CM crash, you arent playing enough

With regard to the walkthrough, how about a movie of two experienced CM players in a meeting engagement with a breakdown of what each player is trying to accomplish, and what orders he issued? Sounds pretty easy to me. Just make some audio clips to explain the action... along with some flash style rollover animations and FMV (I dont program so just shoot me when you explain why this wont work). BTW, all the consoles use the DVD format, so your extra cd would be unnecessary, its way more space than BTS needs... plus these consoles will have HD's soon.

Finally, another few dollars to make CM more user friendly will be money well spent... take for example the closeness of the GO button to the navigation arrows, its unacceptable to have a GUI that can ruin a game by an accidental button click while trying to move around the battlefield. Also, the money would go to a new 3d engine... maybe you can wait for 3-5 years for the rewrite, but i would like to see better graphics sooner, even if it means a price hike, or BTS has to buy a decent 3d engine suited to their needs.

[Console CM...]

Originally posted by Venjra ICQ 2126434:

I wouldnt like to see this forum spoiled with childish coments or having gamey tactics used in scenarios. :mad:

You're right, that doesn't happen already :-P

Originally posted by The_Capt:

PC = BMW

Console = Skateboard

Funny how my "skateboard" has more graphics horsepower than your "BMW". And a higher mhz rating than 50% of people who currently play CM.

Originally posted by JMcGuire:

I can give you a couple great reasons they shouldn't do this.

First of all, developer licenses for all those platforms are extremely expensive for a company of BTS's size.

Second, the similarity between a PC and those consoles, even an XBOX, isn't as great as you think. If it's taking them this long to build CMBB, and it's heavily based on existing code, they'd basically NEVER be able to ship a product for even one additional platform. It would be outdated before they could finish it.

Third, at least on the XBOX and PS2 (I don't know about the GameCube) there are enormous royalties to pay to MS or Sony for every copy sold. That's cash directly out of BTS's pocket. If they aren't interested in the traditional publisher/retail channels today, you can bet they don't want to pay Console Tax any time in the near future.

Fourth, while I love CM, frankly its graphics suck by any modern standards. Its complexity and its graphics would probably make it a flop. I think this was the point Andreas was making.

I can probably come up with more reasons if you want...

Addressing your arguments in order:

First, Nintendo and MS and Sony all have significant pools of money available to developers... all they have to do is ask, or express interest. Nintendo has earmarked a billion dollars to encourage small developers to bring forth their games on their system, all you have to do is fill out a loan form. MS and Sony have similar programs.

Second, offload that work to a company that does ports? Admittedly BTS would never part with their code, but everyone else does it... is their code so much less vaulable? Or is CM that great? How about buying a license to a 3d engine that isn't so 1980's?

Third, consoles will gross over 10 billion dollars this year, you make it sound like no one is making money, this isnt the case, and royalties are not as prohibitive as you may think...

Fourth, if you read my post you would notice I mention getting a new graphics engine.

Originally posted by Farslayer:

I'm not a hardcore wargamer, just a gamer, and I preordered CM.

[Console CM...]

With the advent of broadband enabled next generation consoles (Gamecube, PS2, X-Box) I feel its time we convince BTS that CM can also be played on these new machines, in the living room, in front of the kids and by the kids. First, let me say that CM would need a major overhaul to be playable on such devices, however, the X-box is practically a pc, and a port could be acheived in a short period of time, and be profitable, imho. The argument that BTS doesn't want their product on a console for fear someone will copy the code, or produce copycat games that may dilute a genre in which they currently entertain a monopoly (squad level combat), is mute, as about half a dozen games currently in production could be considered CM copycats already. Perhaps a large publisher revolts BTS so much that they are willing to forego a piece of the Next-Gen pie? A massively multiplayer WW2 title is what console gamers are demanding... if BTS has no interest in this thats fine, but it will be a cash cow for someone, as gamers already purchase even the most lackluster WW2 games. Let me also say that doing a console version would do CM some good, largely because it lacks polish (which may or may not be resolved in CMBB, I don't know). By polish, I refer to the crucial things CM will need before it could become golden master on a console (yes I know this is beating a dead horse):

1)Stable code that doesn't crash.

2)A refined GUI with better menus and button layout.

3)A better 3d engine with particle effects, smoke trails, and things like muzzle flash and realtime lighting.

4)Saving replays of turns in movie form to show your friends.

5)An in-game walkthrough that summarizes the 150 page manual.

Before you guys get crazy as to why this could never happen, let me first clear up some of the myths surrounding the consoles:

1)They are all internet capable this fall, and I have already played both Ps2 and X-box games over cable modem.

2)They have the horsepower, my ibook runs CM fine (300mhz ppc), and all the new consoles are rated at 300mhz or greater and produce graphics of far greater detail than anything I have seen on computers. My gamecube renders hundreds of little creatures simultaneously in realtime lighting... they could just as easily be Volkstrum.

3)"I play CM with a mouse and keyboard, not some stupid controller"... X-box and PS2 are usb plug and play, keyboards, mice, they all work.

4)Mods. X-box has a 8Gb HD, sony ships a Ps2 HD in October.

Oh, and did I mention the caption on the back of the box...

"Over 1000 scenarios available for download online, hundreds of players await your challenge"

Now, what console game can offer that?

Are you with me? Let's not wait 5 years for an engine rewrite (j/k). Lets get BTS to sell out now! Then our kids could actually learn something, and humanity will be saved.

[Replay "Movie" Mode for CM2]

While talking to a few other gamers the other day an opinion was formed that a movie file of the entire battle would be a really cool feature to implement in CM2. Tactical analysis would be very easy... and it would save everybody the time of explaning everything all the time. Please help me convince BTS that this feature is an essential upgrade to the Combat Mission games.

[CM Not-So-Superbowl II]

sure