gredeker
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Posts posted by gredeker
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Not to mention the tourney...Originally posted by Wild Bill Wilder:The USAAF was quite active in the days following the clearing of the skies but weren't always that accurate. I've read of a couple of friendly fire incidents that took place in the days of good weather.
I can't really complain, though, because the strafing runs (after the mis-dropped bombs) hit the right targets.
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Von Lucke, what choices did you have with the Croc? My Croc was outside a setup zone (and in the sights of that one PB), giving me the options of either leaving it where it was, or dragging it to one of the two setup zones (which were in the town and and straddling the road leading to it, IIRC). :confused:Originally posted by von Lucke:With my initial set-up, I placed my armor to the rear, in hull-down positions where all the hills on the German side of the map could be targeted on turn 1. With the exception of the Croc, which I placed as close to the base of the hill on the right as possible (I wanted to move it into a covered spot ASAP).
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High Cost of Real Estate wins the award for "Weirdest Scenario of the Tourney" in my book. It also looks like it is one of the most unbalanced scenarios.
I was the Canucks, and barely pulled off a 51-49 "win". The allied setup zones seemed to favor a hard left push, so that's what I did. However, I made the joint mistakes of a) turning my Croc to help support the left, thereby giving the 75mm pillbox a perfect side shot; and
giving a target command instead of rotate command to the Croc once the PB appeared. The Croc rotated just the turret, and the PB got an upper side hull penetration. 
The attack on the left consisted of scouts moving out in turns 1 and 2, with a Wasp taking out the MG bunker, followed by a blitz in turns 3-5 which busted open the left flank. During this blitz I lost 3 'roos (one to mines, two to 'schrecks) and one Sherman (to the 75 that killed the Croc) and a HT (also to the 75 when he appeared as a reinforcement in its LOS). The whole idea was to get out of the covered arcs of the two 75 PB's, then roll up the line. By the time I had mopped up and re-mounted my infantry, it was turn 10, so the arrival of the StuHs and PzIVs in turn 12 (?) found my infantry and Wasps on the front slope heading into the valley by the Vineyard, and much carnage was inflicted on my infantry and vehicles. The Firefly single-handedly turned things around when he arrived on the scene, taking out 3 of the 4 German AFVs in a single turn, but the fighting then bogged down to a static situation. Both of us were more effective on the defense, and neither wanted to attack the other. A late German push was thwarted with help of the remaining shells of the 25-pounder FO and a lucky shot from a Sherman 75, and the game ended with the Canucks controlling two flags and the Germans one.
I had two tanks get bogged in the mud out of LOS to any terrain of value, so that was frustrating. I also learned that while you can push an immobilized vehicle with another one, you cannot push a bogged vehicle. I had two 'roos trying for 4 or 5 turn to push a tank up to the front lines, but it didn't work.
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That's what I was trying to say above with my piddly diagram, but you said it much more eloquently.Originally posted by MikeyD:One explanation of the JagdTiger kill, if you look through the game's binoculars at max zoom you'll see distances foreshortened. That means a column of Shermans heading in your direction from 4000m would look like a series of stacked dominos. In these circumstances the gunner could guesstimate the range for the center of the column and have some chance that the flat trajectory of the big shell would land somewhere between the first and last vehicle in the column. I have read reports of German gunners being amazed to see a column of tanks approaching as though in a parade, their big air recognition stars making perfect aiming points.
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Has there been any thought about increasing the LOS at night near burning buildings and/or vehicles? Or does that fall under "dynamic lighting" and is on the list for the rewrite? Just curious...
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This makes far more sense to me if the JT was shooting at a convoy and happened to get some hits. It especially makes sense if the geometry was such that the JT was in line with a straight stretch of road, so that any range errors would still likely fall on the stretch of road (and have a higher chance of striking a vehicle on that road).Originally posted by Ari Maenpaa:Janusz Ledwoch's "Jagdtiger" also reports JTs destroying several Shermans at 4000m range. At least some of those Shermans were part of a MOVING convoy.
Something like:
XX> <4000m> -----------------
(^JT@ slightly
higher elev.)
Edited because my schematic didn't work quite right...
[ February 04, 2002, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: redeker ]
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In case you didn't see it in the other thread on the main forum, we can now talk about "We Can't Wait".
So...
Did folks find any particularly inspired/effective placements for AT guns? What did airpower do in your game?
In my playing, the best AT gun position was a keyholed Pak38 in the town, which managed to take out three(?) of my halftracks without me seeing where it was.
My airpower experience can be summed up in two words - Friendly Fire.
The airedales did manage to strafe a few German vehicles and a flak gun or two later in the game, but they saved their bombs for me. -
Wade, thanks for the update and for saving the thread.
Bertram and Warren - how far along are you two in this scenario? Maybe we'll have another scenario to talk about shortly.
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Don't forget that you can also change the type of order for each waypoint when you drag it.
For example:
Did the turn end with your veteran tank presenting a side-on shot to an AT gun? Just grab that red waypoint right in front of your tank, drag it behind your tank (hopefully behind some cover) then hit "R" on the keyboard. When the next turn begins, your tank will immediately shift into reverse with no delay.
I've found it very helpful, especially when you have to take vehicles into town, to always use more waypoints then you need, and always using three at each corner.
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When you do that, do you take the HQ unit *off* of HIDE?</font>Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redeker:
I've used the "false ambush" regularly. Just have them "ambush" the patch of open ground 10m in front of them.
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I've used the "false ambush" regularly. Just have them "ambush" the patch of open ground 10m in front of them.
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I'd like to take a look at that AAR, if you don't mind. Let me know if you want mine as well.Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina:I can send the detailed AAR'r if anyone wishes to see it. There i describe my plan, and the excecution.
Regards
CDIC
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Kingfish,
I'll send you my AAR for Real Guts (I was allies) so you know what I faced. I have a feeling that the pillbox placement in my game was atypical, but I have no idea what the initial German setup areas were.
I would assume that the ideal pillbox placement would be on the two hills on either side, with commanding LOS and interlocking fields of fire. However, in my game, one pillbox was covering the left bridge (all references from allied perspective) with relatively limited (but effective) LOS and the other was covering the center near the diagonal road, in a position that could not see, nor be seen from, the allied reinforcement areas. The Pak40 was on the right hill near the top, but its exact location only had LOS to the bridge and the hill on the allied side, not to the initial allied reinforcement area (some trees or whatnot got in the way). The Pak40 managed to take out one tank as it crossed the bridge, but it was then wiped out by in a fury of HE return fire (as only Shermans can provide a fury of HE to avenge one of their fallen).
The pillbox in the center was actually remarkably effective in denying use of the center ridge area, forcing my pincer flanking attacks to swing even more to the outside to avoid the pillbox (which still managed to destroy a Sherman).
My impression is that "par for the course" for pillboxes is around 3 or 4 enemy AFVs before being taken out, in comparison with 1 or 2 for AT guns, assuming good placement. Is this accurate?
Where were the pillboxes in other people's games? How much freedom of placement does the German player have for his defenses?
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I just realized that the unknown scenario you're talking about has pillboxes, while mentally I read it as "AT guns" because of what I believe some others have said about another scenario. If we're talking about the only other scenario with AT pillboxes, I would have to agree that it is the one that ranks highest on the weird-o-meter. I haven't yet written my AAR on that one, but I lost a significant unit on turn one to an AT PB. The rest of my game strategy was largely dictated by the placement of those pillboxes, and I only gained freedom of maneuver late in the game when the PB which took out my significant unit on turn 1 finally succumbed to a terrain fire caused by all the HE which had been thrown at him from just outside his covered arc.
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I'm getting the impression that I had an atypical playing of both of the scenarios in question, partly due to luck, partly due to my actions, and partly due (at least in Real Guts) to the defender's setup.Originally posted by Kingfish:The two scenarios are ‘Real guts’ and one other still in progress at the tourney. In both the allied reinforcements appear literally in the crosshairs of the German PBs. The result is a turkey shoot for the German player, allowing him to bag valuable units at no cost. In addition, the entry of these reinforcements into battle is now delayed, as the allied player is forced to scramble the survivors into cover, and reorganize shattered units. On the flip side, the German reinforcements arrive in good order, safely behind terrain features and out of LOS to the allied player.
These PBs are detected very early in the game, so it can be assumed that the allied commander, aware that his reinforcements will arrive soon, will have plenty of time to warn of the threat and detour the column to a safer arrival point.
So, what I think is needed is a sheltered arrival point for the allied reinforcements. He can then coordinate their entry into the battle, rather than the ‘every man for himself’ rush to cover.
I’d like to hear your opinions and suggestions.
I am all for screening reinforcement group arrival points, but the technique can also be used by a scenario designer to either light a fire under the attacker and/or reward proper use of smoke. I don't know what others think, but when I'm given an 81mm observer among my initial forces in an attack or assault scenario, I assume that he is there for his smoke capability.
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I can't help but wonder if there will be "friendly" fire on the Russian side if Commissars are modeled. I can just imagine hearing something similar to the "Get up and FIGHT!" .wav file followed by a pistol shot and the casualty count of the squad in question going up by one.Originally posted by Big Time Software:We are also modeling doctrine to some extent using C&C delays. The Soviets had, without any question of a doubt, an artificial paralysis (at times) imposed upon them through years of purposeful training and reinforced by the lovely boys of the NKVD and Commisars.
It's one of the most funny and macabre aspects of ASL, especially in Red Barricades. :eek:
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Ahem.... the .50 cal HMG is modeled as an 8, but I'm somewhat hesitant to bring it up and give those "Ma Deuce is undermodeled in CM" types any more ammo. (pun intended)Originally posted by ASL Veteran:In fact, I think the only nation with a LMG rated at a 3, an MMG rated at a 5, or an HMG rated at a 7 is Germany and the MG34 / 42. Every other nation in ASL has LMG 2, MMG 4, HMG 6.
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Kip,
As a current ASL player (going on ten years now - oy!) I'd have to say that there are plenty of other distinguishing features between German and Russian infantry in ASL, including: quantity and quality of leadership, quantity and quality of support weapons, German inherent PF capability, differences in broken morale for various units, etc.
However, whether in ASL or CMBB, a good scenario designer will mix and match things until the right combination of historical accuracy and (lest we forget) fun arrived at for that particular scenario.
While there may certainly be some small discrepancies with relation to unit pricing, play balance and quick battles, I think a lot of it could be taken care quite simply with the following humble suggestion: Incorporate timeframe modifiers to the bonuses received by leaders. As I have NO IDEA how these are currently determined in CMBO, other than the vague notion that "better quality units tend to get better quality leaders" incorporation of such a system would allow for minor adjustments in play balance to better reflect historical reality.
Just my $0.02.
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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by The_Capt:
Some "not so silent nights" I wake up screaming...sob.
The dying gasps of my men, the explosions..my God I can't get the images out of my mind!!!<hr></blockquote>
I pray that our heavenly father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you with only the cherished memories of the troops lost... and a good night's sleep.
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Shouldn't it be "Stalingrad '42"?
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What's the experience level of the squad? And are they under the influence of a leader with a stealth bonus? My experience is that a unit with greater experience and/or more stealthy leadership will hide longer before un-hiding and opening fire.
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We haven't talked about Duel at Dompaire yet...
How did people use the terrain in this scenario? Did anyone use the sunken road on the German right for a high-speed flanking attack? Did people use the hills, or stay down on the flat? Did the French make it into town? Did any armor survive until the end?
In my game, the French stayed off the hills and on the flat, and ignored the sunken road on the far right (all references from German perspective) which I guarded with the Pak38 and a HMG, instead choosing to concentrate their attack in the area on both sides of the center sunken road. The French got hung up in the woods at the edge of the town proper, but did manage to get a tank or two on the hill to the left of the town. An infantry altercation took place in the scattered trees on the far left, and the field on the left became a panzer graveyard for both sides. A major firefight took place along the center sunken road, again with multiple dead AFVs from both sides littering the landscape. When the game ended, I was down to two Panthers and four halftracks, while the French were down to two Shermans and one halftrack.
Those last two Panthers did all the heavy lifting in the scenario, and I've recommended both of the crews for decoration. In the first half, my kitties couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, and I lost five of them in exchange for only one Sherman and a Greyhound. Things started to improve in the middle game, when I lost another two in exchange for 3 or 4 French tanks, then things really shifted into high gear around turn 19 or 20 when those two remaining Panthers racked up some large number (6? 8?) of kills while themselves remaining in good order.
If anyone wants the AAR and/or ending map file, post here or send me an e-mail and I'll send it to you on my lunch break.
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: redeker ]</p>
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Nabla,
I don't even pretend to understand the formula, but could you run it on one of the scenarios that has been completed in the ROW tourney? That way we can see how it would work on some real life data.
Thanks.
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Wade,
I'd love to talk about that scenario (and yes, your guess in the other thread was correct) but WineCape has admonished us (also in the other thread) not to say anything until everyone is done playing each scenario.
Greg
giving a target command instead of rotate command to the Croc once the PB appeared. The Croc rotated just the turret, and the PB got an upper side hull penetration. 
Wild Bill's Rumblings of War AAR Thread
in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)
Posted