Urban Shocker
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Posts posted by Urban Shocker
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First, please forgive me if this has been discussed before.
Here's the situation:
My boys are advancing to contact and start getting chewed up by an infantry gun or ack-ack. They hit the deck and eventually run for cover losing visual contact with the gun (i.e., I get the nationality symbol in place of the gun). Everybody sits tight while the arty spotter radios in the location of the gun. In other words, he targets the last known position of the the gun. The arty spotter does not have eyes on the gun.
Sevevral minutes later, the position gets pounded by arty and after a near miss or direct hit, the nationality symbol changes to the gun image. When I click on the gun it says "knocked out."
Here's the question: If I don't have eyes on how do I know its knocked out? I would like somebody "in the know" to answer this, if possible.
Thanks.
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I'm a little confused about the command delays. Are they going to be instituted because the early Soviet army was green or because of Soviet battalion commander and below personality traits (i.e. tactical training)?
The debate has been pretty civilized so far. Let's remember teasing apart interlocking elements can be difficult. So deciding whether a Soviet company behaved a certain way because it was something inherent to it (and thus modeled in CMBB) or something having to do with higher levels of command (and thus not modeled in CMBB, IMHO) is going to be difficult with some gray areas.
I have faith that BTS will take the best evidence at hand and interpret it correctly. We should all realize that CMBB might not be made precisely what we would make but it is going to be damn good game.
P.S. Just the fact we are having discussions like this should be evidence that this is going to be a worthwhile game.
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This is sort of like the Most Valuable Player debate in sports. How much of the team's success is one player responsible for? How much is a good general worth in terms of victories, friendly and enemy casualties, and confidence inspiring?
Let's do a little thought experiment. Consider each of the following Generals and whether or not they would have excelled to the same level if they were leading the armies of a different nation.
(1) Montgomery leading a Soviet army at the
beginning of Barbarossa.
(2) Rommel leading an American army in Tunisia.
(3) Patton leading the Italian Army against the
Brits in early 1941.
(4) Guderian leading the Polish army in 1939.
How would they have done?
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Michael,
It is interesting but perhaps CMer's are not looking for tactical guidance on town clearing...yet. I just started reading the U.S. Army FM on urban assaults in prep for CMBB. It is an interesting set of tactics (and nerves of steel) necessary to clear a town house-by-house.
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I was wondering if every week or two until the release of CMBB, we (the dedicated "fanboys") could receive some eye candy in the the form of new screenshots. Not much...just 4-6 per week just to keep the blood simmering before the heat gets turned up.
Is this possible?
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Here are the basics for legitimate criticism (i.e., it will be taken seriously):
(1) You have an explicitly well described situation ideally with the saved turn during which the questionable event occurred.
and/or
(2) Some written material from an official source with a reasonable interpretation on your part as to why CM is not reasonable in its modeling of the situation.
or
(2a) You actually did armor testing with said vehicles and have the raw data to share with us.
Think of the whole game as a hypothesis on how things went during combat during WWII. The only way to get a hypothesis changed is by presenting data that conflicts with or contradicts the hypothesis.
Furthermore, isolated incidences do not necessarily pass as good data. Unless the occurrence is so grievous that it defies common sense or is outside the realm of possibility, you need a repeated occurrences of an illogical event for it to be a flaw.
Hope this helps.
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Support your local library! Bug'em as well about getting some books describing the Eastern Front.
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Kip,
I feel the same as you. When I said different theaters I wanted the ability to choose Western Front, Eastern Front, North Africa or Pacific.
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Slapdragon,
I know very little about software development so why can't a game like operational art of war which deals strategy and operations not be hooked up with CM?
Two things happen with battles (I'm ignoring lots of things like attacking supply routes, engineering, AI behavior, etc.):
(1) player wants to direct battle so the computer places the appropriate units on the battlefield like in CM and the player commands. It gets the force complements from the strategic part of the game.
(2) player does not want to direct battle so computer does it using realistic algorithms like it does in the operational art of war.
I guess I don't understand the complications as both types of games exist it is just a matter of the strategic part of the game communicating the necessary information to the tactical part of the game.
In fact the game Shogun already does this! It does not have complicated road systems and lines of communication but there is a strategic map and a real time tactical battlefield which includes the effects of terrain, commander quality, morale, and so on.
Finally, I am only talking about a game which could be played solo or against one opponent unlike CMMC and WWII Online.
[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Urban Shocker ]</p>
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I appreciate the efforts of the CMMCer's to get us involved with something that might scratch the itch some of us feel..
The basic point still remains that a game combining the strategic, operational, and (semi) real time tactical combat in different theaters and at different scales of WWII (or other conflicts for that matter) is desirable and probably would be considered a "breakthrough" or "innovative" war game. I don't think I am overstating the case.
Combat Mission provides the most realistic WWII tactical game on the. There are and have been strategic/operational games around for a while. Who is going to put them together in a realistic, interesting, and playable way?
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I would say that adding a little logistics would also by important. Keeping open lines of communications for supplies, weather and terrain effects on movement, and that sort of thing.
Like I said before, CMMC is a great thing but some of us cannot make the commitment. Is it that hard to incorporate CMMC elements into a game? Probably not but would it sell?
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I agree with you Kip. Yet there is an abundance of tactical games. Is it because that's what poeple want...probably. But I do think that there is a lot of interest in the strategic level combined with the tactical that is not being met.
CM is a refreshing change from the hex-based stuff (which I enjoy). I am getting a little sick, though, of computer war game developers coming out with "innovative" games which still revolve around pushing pieces around on a hex-based map. I am starting to think the problem is generational. Many of the people developing games grew up playing hex-based board games and cannot think outside the box (or hex).
Regarding CMMC, I think that it is a great thing. I've been to the site several times. I have not joined because I don't think I can make the consistent time commitment it would require. Damn...if someone could take what those guys have accomplished and put it into code...put me on the waiting list for that game.
[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Urban Shocker ]</p>
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...the strategic and the tactical. The big picture is so important. If someone could combine the operational art of war with combat mission I would be set for a long time. Don't get me wrong I love tactics but strategy is fascinating as well.
This PWG would take each players movements and decide where battles were to be fought and allowed the user to either fight the battle or let the computer decide the outcome in some way. So many elements like lines of communication, supply, and longer term engineering feats are left out of tactical games could be included in the PWG.
There is definite interest in this among war gamers as evidenced by the ideas pertaining to and conductance of campaigns using CM.
Adding strategic elements adds more meaning to battles then simply I won or I lost. You cannot just throw your force to the wind for victory because when the sun rises tomorrow you'll be given another objective. If you lose a battle that provides the gap necessary for the opponents tanks infiltrate your rear areas then you're in some serious trouble! Do you risk pulling a battalion from your left flank to aid your right?
It seems as though this impressive game we love challenges us to be good captains or majors but with some work it could also challenge us to become good generals and field marshals.
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Playing solitaire is underrated! The advantages are:
1. An opponent of equal ability.
2. Agreement on gamey tactics.
3. Intel on what the opponent is planning.
4. No need to communicate on not being able to finish a turn or game by a certain time since you're both on the same schedule.
5. You both either love or hate trash talking.
6. No bickering over force composition.
7. Great post-battle discussions...in person!
8. Only destroying one life and not contributing to the delinquency others (a great relief for those of guilty conscience.
9. ?
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Playing solitaire is underrated! The advantages are:
1. An opponent of equal ability.
2. Agreement on gamey tactics.
3. Intel on what the opponent is planning.
4. No need to communcate on not beeing able to finish a turn or game in time since you're both on the same schedule.
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Does it sit there or does it seek and destroy?
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Well Colonel...you know your baseball!
Urban James Shocker played 6 seasons with the Yankees and 7 with St. Louis. He compiled a record of 187-117 with an ERA of 3.17. He was a member of some pretty good late 20's Yankees teams.
Urban Shocker struck me as a great warring name so I adopted it. By the way, you are the first person in 7 years to ask this question!
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I am working on a campaign which will encompass a 22 x 22 km section of land. Each sector map is 1 sq. km. What should be the unit limit for that kind of area. The only thing I found on the subject was in a book called "Against the Panzers" which states that an American battalion covered 1-5 km depending on the situation. Does this seem reasonable?
I am also trying to introduce the element of supply into the campaign. Under dry (ideal)conditions How far away from a road can a unit be and still get 100% supply?
Thanks in advance for any help.
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I was watching "The color of war" on the history channel a couple of weeks ago and this is what they presented regarding rocket artillery.
A Department of Army study concluded that rocket artillery caused few casualties. Were the casualties caused in proportion to their use...who knows?
Perhaps more telling were the quotes from several G.I. diaries and letters sent home on the psychological effects of being in or near a rocket artillery attack which to put it mildly were terrifying. What effect did this have on combat effectiveness...who knows?
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Thanks, Jason. I'll use the following ranges:
150's - 11 km
105's - 10 km
less than 100 - 4 km
Do you know the range of the 75 mm?
I am working to make this an individual campaign. I am trying to design it so it an be played solo. Ideally, though, another person could direct the movement of the opposing forces and place them on the pe-made maps but all battles would be fought against the AI. Since I like bigger battles it is going to pit the Panzer Lehr Division versus a U.S. Infantry Division with attached elements (like tanks, TD's, AA, Arty and so on). By the way, it was actually inspired by the CMx10 thread.
I created the largest map I could in the editor with each of the large squares representing 2 km on a side. Since it is a 22 x 22 large square map this makes it 44 km x 44 km or about 2,000 sq. km. which should be plenty for a division to occupy.
Each turn will be 30 minutes and battles will be ongoing...meaning units will stay locked in battle until one withdraws. This also will provide the opportunity for reinforcement of an ongoing.
At this point, I'm still working out the other details. Some of these include the use of engineers in building minefields and fortifications, weather effects on strategic movement, and the effects of losing supply or being cut-off.
I should thank ScoutPL and the CMMC crew since I've found their writings very helpful and will probably co-opt some of their ideas for this campaign.
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I am working on a campaign but cannot find arty ranges for the various german and american calibers listed. I'm not talking about spotters but how far in kilometers or miles these gods of war can fire on their targets. Thanks inadvance for any help.
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Mulder, Mulder, where are you? A new case for the X-Files. Super soldiers existed during WWII.
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When I try to downlaod your tracks it gives me a message like your account has exceeded the maximum dowloads for this month. What's up?
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The manual says (page#?) darker blue lines imply worse LOS than due lighter blue lines. Compare the lightness of the targeting or LOS lines to see if there is a difference. Deeper in the woods may mean more shrubs, small trees, fallen tree snags, etc between you and your potential target thus lowering your chance of a hit.
[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Urban Shocker ]</p>
Combat mission ranked 89 in PCgamer top 100
in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)
Posted
Shogun may be overrated but it does combine elements that many wargamers desire. It has stategic, operational, and (real-time) tactical elements. I wish there was a WWII game that did the same!