Nabla
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Posts posted by Nabla
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Yes, in 1942 the newly formed tank division had 6 "10 ITPSV 40" AA tanks, and we still had 6 of those in 1944. But the guys at BTS know this. Don't know if they made it to the game, and if not, why.Originally posted by Juha Ahoniemi:Hmmm. Finns should have IMO landsverk II anti (flak) (bofors 40mm-wanna have!)
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1. ... penetration is also a dirty word.
2. ... you know that CMBB will be released in a couple of days.
3. ... you occasionally feel the urge to go.
4. ... you still pay for the electricity which you need to keep your computer running.
5. ... you did not play CMBO alpha.
6. ... you know if you still have a wife.
[ September 17, 2002, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Nabla ]
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I've heard good things about these books, but I've also heard that their problem is the lack of maps. Could someone recommend a map source to go with these two volumes?Originally posted by Little_Black_Devil:I would highly reccomend Professor John Erickson's two volume set on the Eastern Front;
"The Road to Stalingrad"
and
"The Road to Berlin".
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Very nice!
May I offer some constructive critisism. The posters at the top look a little detached, and the fact that they are not aligned at the bottom probably doesn't improve the feeling. Is there anything you could do about that?
But it looks good even now - wouldn't be interested in improving it otherwise.
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And let me just add (=advertise), possible unbalance is really what you want in a war game. Therefore, to enjoy it to the fullest, get yourself involved in a tournament (run by TB155) which uses our Mutha Beautiful balancing scoring system. And lo and behold, unbalance becomes a joy instead of a sorrow!Originally posted by Steve:And WWB is correct. Fionn's rules were to prevent uncommon matchups not prevent unbalanced matchups. There is a big difference. Rarity is designed to prevent uncommon, not unbalanced. Real war is not about balancing, but about availability. Hence the focus of Rarity.
[ September 12, 2002, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: Nabla ]
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That's only 2 reasons, TB.Originally posted by Treeburst155:I need reasons to buy CMBB?! How 'bout, it's a Mutha Beautiful Game and it will soon be available.
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Hi TB155!
Welcome back.
Let's start running some nice tournaments again. I've got a couple of new ideas...
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Well, I think we might have something similar after the arrival of CMBB.Originally posted by BaD JoKe:As a little lazy forum-reader, I wasn't aware of Nordic Championships being played. Have any idea about the future games?
The Nordic Championships was the first tournament in which we tested a new concept of (possibly) unbalanced scenarios in CM tournaments. The idea has stood up quite well in this tournament and others as well. So I think that after you've played a while with CMBB we might have a European Championships tournament along similar lines.
[ August 17, 2002, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Nabla ]
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What's the status?
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Hello gentlemen!
Just came back from my holiday, and I'm glad to see that you've enjoyed the finals. You are hereby promoted to "Nordic Lookalikes".
EDIT: As soon as some of the "Real" Nordics (yeah, right) get their act together, I'd be really ecstatic if someone would be willing to post a mini-AAR. Better yet, if you just can't control yourself, you can write one now and email it to the participants, Treeburst155 and me right now.
Please?
[ August 12, 2002, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Nabla ]
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Program source is ready for download now.
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Seems like a truly great idea. Nice work!
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That would be me.Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:Sorry for not keeping up more with the tourney threads, I am not all that competitive when it comes to CM. But I notice the term NABLA scoring being bandied about the Boots and Tracks tourney thread, and since I
am a competitor in that one, I must say I am interested.
Can someone tell me what NABLA stands for/refers to, and who invented it/where it comes from?
Sorry for the late response, but I've been on holiday for the past week. Treeburst has already given a good description of the system above. If you want to know the details and the evolution of the system see the following long thread
http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=021512
Another person has requested the source of the program set from me while I was on holiday. I will make it available for download this evening here (you can already find the DOS binaries there). The program code is standard C++, so you should be able to compile it under a variety of different operating systems. I have compiled it under DOS and Linux.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
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Man, you've done what I should have done. Great service. Thanks a lot.Originally posted by Sgt_Kelly:You've had to wait for them a while, but here they finally are : the AARs from the Nordic Wannabee first round.
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Grr, must be a bug. Shame on me. Does it affect gameplay?Originally posted by ciks:There's one funny thing on the map thou. The "Mountain of Water" in the harbour...
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I'd like to think the addition of SMG wouldn't make the flametrower (significantly) more cumbersome, but would possibly come in handy at times.</font>Originally posted by Jarmo:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Awesome gun in my opinion but how practical was it in real life?
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That is true, if we're talking about the formations in which pioneers participated in battles.Originally posted by Big Time Software:Nabla,
Interesting stuff. Unfortunately, it doesn't do much to answer the question
The refferences to combat are not unexpected as their use in combat is not in dispute. HOW they were used in combat is the thing that is unclear.First, what is clear is that combat pioneer activity was increased, and that combat pioneers learned new skills.
Second, it also seems reasonable that pioneer units participated in battles more or less like regular infantry only if no infantry was available for the task. When and if Finns had a choice, pioneers would be used according to their special training. During the Winter War Finns learned to appreciate these special skills quite a bit.
So if we want to limit the range of available units according to the doctrine (what Finns would have wanted to use in battles), larger pioneer units would probably not be needed. However, if you want to create a scenario in which pioneer units engage in a battle against ordinary infantry, that seems historically reasonable, although rare.
Seems reasonable.Originally posted by Big Time Software:I'm inclined to conclude that the Finns had a mix between their Winter War (and earlier) doctrine and German "Assault Pioneer" methods. That they did not deploy en mas into combat, but instead participated in combat in small teams to carry out specialized tasks during attacks. This would mean, in CM terms, making Finnish Pioneers limited to small assault teams. Heavily armed and having the potential to do "great things', but not great in numbers in any one battle.
[/QB]
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Here's an excerpt from the history of Finnish pioneer corps.Originally posted by Steve:This begs the question... should we be including Pioneer formations in CMBB for Finland at all and instead simply include 2 man demo and flamethrower teams?
"One of the training branches noted above, namely combat pioneer training, made such a great leap between the wars that one can with good reason talk about its rebirth. It happened in early spring 1941, when a new basis was founded for new kind of combat pioneer action in our corps. Because of the shortness of the peace time phase, its practice and implementation took place during the Continuation War.
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...one of our pioneer officer was allowed to travel to Germany to get acquainted with the training of combat pioneers.
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The detailed report made from the course shows that some of the methods and equipment used by German combat pioneers were unknown to us: the training course of combat pioneers with different kinds of equipment, shooting pot shots from the hip, overrunning trenches with hard hand granades, martial arts (jiu-jitsu etc.), adaptation explosions, S-mines, bar mines, flamethrower tanks, methods for conquering concrete pillboxes, Sturmboot and its use."
The importance of combat pioneer and strike team training before the attack in summer 1941 is emphasized several times in the book. It would seem that the German doctrine was making its way into Finnish army.
Below you can find some additional excerpts from the same book. The first one is a general observation, the rest are from descriptions of pioneer activity in different sectors.
"Pioneer battalion was an operational unit of the branch, which was used both in pioneer technical tasks according to its special training, and as infantry."
"Pioneer Battalion 1, which was led by Cpt. V Nuottamäki, participated 24.-25.7. in a strike against an enemy formation which had landed in Luukkulansaari, losing one officer, three non-commissioned officers, and six pioneers in this maiden battle."
"When the pioneer units advanced together with leading units, they often participated in battles."
"The pioneer commander of group O, Cpt Lukkari, started to apply strike formations in our local conditions. Some experience about such action had already been collected during the Winter War, and in addition fresh training had been received in Germany between the wars."
"Participation in infantry battles, mine clearing, road repair and building bridges were typical activities also for the pioneers operating west of Jänisjoki."
"The flamethrower pioneer platoon of Pioneer Battalion 31 conquered the main building of municipal home of Paksujalka."
"Pioneers participated in infantry battles for example when the unit had to defend itself against counterstrikes."
"Due to the nature of the battles pioneer units had to participate in all situations created by defense and attack battles."
"The 1st company of Pioneer Battalion 1 participated as infantry in these fierce battles."
[ April 28, 2002, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: Nabla ]
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I answered honestly to the poll: I'd prefer English language both in the game and in the manual. Also, I'm sure most gamers in Finland are quite fluent in English, because most of them are young (have been taught English) and/or have been playing games in English (because there are practically no good games in Finnish).
So, a Finnish version of the game would primarily target older people who are new to gaming. I myself would assume that this would be a pretty small market. But that's just my hunch.
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If you have only one unbalanced game, it is true that at the start of the tourney all games are possibly unbalanced. But different games are played at different times. If you have only one nasty surprise, then people know that there are no more such available.Originally posted by Treeburst155:So, there will be one wildcard, deliberately unbalanced scenario. Players will run into this one during the "regular season".
So may I make a suggestion. Just say that there are unbalanced games in the tournament, but don't say how many. Then just pick a number, and tell it only to the designers.
Now people expect the number to be small, so you have to take that into account. Twisted, eh?
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I also second the notion.Originally posted by Wreck:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Could you guys consider including at least one of those "fun" scenarios in the tourney?
Also if we do this, please don't make it possible for us to determine which scenarios are which! If boots and tracks do all of them, great; otherwise please remove the designer and tester credits from all the scenarios.
The idea here is, that *every* scenario we play we don't know for sure if it is a balanced B&T job or a horrid setup from the beginning... like those wonderful/awful nordic scenarios. So we will be forced to take all of the scenarios more seriously.</font>
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It would be nice if you could arrange this.Originally posted by Wreck:Seems to me it should be easy enough to determine a winner out of section 1 (offhand I suspect redwolf), and then we can play along with the Nordic champs...
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Well, you're obviously correct about the fact that the overall ranking is not logically consistent. The orderings inside the groups are the only ones that make sense.Originally posted by Ricochet:Well I must say that the overall ranking isn’t quite fair.
After all I had to fight in Group 2 and as everybody knows Group 2 were the meanest, roughest, toughest, fightin’est SOB’s in all the European theater.
So using my formula we all placed in the top 5 overall.
However, I think that everybody wants to have the SOB status, so you'll have to fight for that one.
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Otherwise these NCT scores seem pretty similar, except for Tuomas. (original Sesam 4.13, Tuomas 2.83). The difference seems to be caused largely by results of The Aftermath. The medians are exactly the opposite when NWT results are included. Original NCOriginally posted by Treeburst155:The Nordic Champ tourney was scored without including the results from this tourney in the calculation(they weren't ready yet). Here is the way it would have stacked up if both tourneys were run as one, not including the AARs:
Sesam 6.96
Tuomas -0.04
Treeburst155 out.
Scenario [ The_Aftermath ] medians [ 41.25 58.75 ].
After NWT results:
Scenario [ The_Aftermath ] medians [ 59 41 ].
Pretty interesting.
[ April 19, 2002, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Nabla ]
The refferences to combat are not unexpected as their use in combat is not in dispute. HOW they were used in combat is the thing that is unclear.
Attention, toothpick lovers: Finnish TO&E available
in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)
Posted
Last spring I did a little Finnish TO&E research for CMBB. The deadline for the research was pretty tight because the info had to be incorporated into the game, so there was really no time for feedback. Also, I don't want to dwell in stuff like this during our beautiful summers, so this is why I'm pulling the rabbit out of the hat now.
In its current form, the purpose of the document is to cover Finnish TO&E from the level of the whole army down to the level of a platoon. The main reason for this scope is the fact that this is what I was asked to do. It was also a sensible limitation of scope because it's much easier to find high-level TO&Es than low-level ones. However, I've described smaller formations when I've found the information fairly easily, or when it has seemed particularly important. For example, the TO&E of the tank division is described in detail, which I'm sure you'll find pretty interesting. The document covers the time period of 1941-1944.
The TO&E is not complete - there are several important formations missing. However, the document is pretty self-explanatory in that the biggest problems are pointed out explicitly. I hope I'm able to complete the TO&E one day, perhaps even for earlier years and down to the level of squads. I don't even dream of getting it completely right without feedback from others. I also would not mind a bit of cooperation with some of the experts here. Doing stuff like this takes quite a bit of time, and I still have a life.
So, tell me what you think, poinpoint some of the errors I made, and if you feel like it, contact me in order to cooperate with me in further development.
Have fun!
Finnish TO&E 1941-1944: from divisions to platoons
[ September 23, 2002, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Nabla ]