Priest
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Posts posted by Priest
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Jadayne if you would be so kind as to let these same thoughts flow to a new post I am gonna start about tactics. You thought process is the same as mine. THanks
Priest
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Damnit Mike your right. Anyways the argument was made against unarmored vehicles not unarmed vehicles. I agree I would rather send the .50 cal jeep than the unarmed jeep but hey sometimes you just do not have a choice. Also about split squads I agree. Except for Fionn (and we looked up to the sky and offered CM to Fionn and he said it was good)(can you tell I just read one of his AAR) I have never witnessed a split squad do anything spectacular or even above average. I like to use sharpshooters myself but really they are another unit that worked well before (say 2 months ago) but have fizzled out lately (patch?).
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Kiwi this is why you are not in the military
(that was a joke)Anyways weren't jeeps used in recon ***SPOILER****
In Team Sobry they are.
Two to three jeeps with a M8 in the back for support is not unrealistic to me (again I know you said unsupported jeeps but your rule allows know unarmored vehicles even if supported) If you guys use some basic restraint and honor (which sounds like you guys do anyway) then unarmored recon does not seem like a problem.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Hey guys. The next PC game I buy is probably Neverwinter nights. I have covert ops and while I just paid 19.95 the day it came out at Software Etc. it was still a little lacking. I only play RB6 games on a LAN though so the missions were worth it. The jungle mission is absolutely awesome. Anyways I also own BGII and it is a much darker game with a lot more options. Still D&D feels a little behind the times for me and my anime addictions (Princess Mononoke baby!). D&D is probably more realistic (for a fantasy game) but I prefer style and damnit if I put a cloak on I want to see it. They just don't let you look cool. Anyways I am ranting. If you want truly good experiences I suggest Dues Ex highly!!!!!!! It is an RPG not a FPS. It is really great. Also if you want to get a great game for $9.00 just pick up SHOGO. Really good. Of course all this is moot because I will be playing CM and my new PS2 and Final Fantasy 9 and wondering if sleep will ever come to me again. (Is there a video game anonymous because I need it bad!)
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cool
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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I respect that you guys are thinking of ways to improve the game for your group but I think that it just limits the experience. The group I play with has no limitations yet we have very balanced and fun games. Have I seen somebody try the "gamey" recon tricks. Sure but after about two turns the jeeps were all abandoned and all that my opponent got to see was 2 MG teams which he promptly lost contact with. I displaced them some 20m or so and let him fly with artillery if he wanted (he never did). In fact it helped because he steered his troops towards the threat and allowed me to flank. Or how about the time my friend close assaulted a immobile KT with about 6 squads and 3 AT teams for about three turns before the crew abandoned (the undead KT of legend). Also if people wanna do something with crews great more pts. for me and a big loss of men for them. I have lost 1 man for all the games I have played to date to crews. I personally usually run crews to the rear or off the side of the map I entered. I can understand the nationality clause. And what is the big deal scouting with AT teams. I don't do it (I like to save them for tanks) but if my opponent does he will meet my front recon screen, lose his AT teams, and then be unable to deal with my tanks later. And and and and...well I could go on but my point is not to disect your rules because you all agreed to play them so it is cool. I have yet to see a true gamey technique just ones that cheat (artillery spotting round problem) and bad ideas (what most people label gamey). Rommel once sent a force of light tanks and trucks with bundles of wood and brush tied behind them causing a large dust cloud that the Allies took for the whole of Afrika Corp. They repositioned and fell prey to his Heavy tanks which came from the rear. Gamey or ingenious? Remember if you have fallen prey to one of these tactics you call it gamey. If you totally destroy five jeeps by turn 3 and eliminate 110pts of you opponents troops with no losses to yourself you just think your opponent stupid. It is all perspective. Group rules fine but (and this is probably the wrong thread for this because I do respect your rules STRAKER and the do make GAME sense) I am tired of the constant barrage of this is gamey and this isn't because now people are going to to extremes to prevent these things and limiting the game. Oh well that was invigorating. See what happens when I watch the presidential debates.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 10-18-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 10-18-2000).]
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welcome back slapdragon. I agree, I love to argue but hate to fight. (I tell that to my girlfriend too but it never seems to work)
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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My girlfriend actually accepts the excuse that I have to issue orders as reason that I am late!
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Juardis who doesn't?
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Fionn acts like it is such a chore to post here
Anyways great stuff guys I got a guy at work to play the demo so he should soon experience all the above. Later#15. Your horoscope says that you will meet the love of your life in a chance encounter and you wonder how your parents will warm up to your new girlfriend...STUGIII.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 10-17-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 10-17-2000).]
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Thank you sirs.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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So who wants to blindly charge with german tanks raise your smiley's
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Okay here is last nights result. To recap there are 4 PnzIV vs. 4 M4 Sherman (basic) at 750m head on duel. It was a clear day with no cover whatsoever (is that one word?). The number are the number of kills inflicted on the enemy. The tanks are from June 1944 and the version of the Panzer is "G". Reg crews.
Panzer/Sherman
3/4
3/4
2/4
4/3
4/2
3/4
1/4*
3/4
4/3
3/4
2/4
2/4
4/3
3/4
3/4
4/1*
3/4
3/4
2/4
4/3
So there we go. I will let you guys and gals derive what you want from the above statistics. The two "*" I attribute to luck and chance so I marked them. Interesting that both sides got a "lucky break". It was two late to count the richocets but it seemed more even, but the PNZIV "brewed up" almost as much as the Sherman! Again I did not count (i am a poor scientist) but it was damn close. Only one game lasted to the third turn; 7 never lasted past the first. The longer the battle went the better the Shermans tended to do, possibly due to the fact that the TacAI started to reverse and move around thus maybe throwing the Germans off more than the Americans (?). Anyways responses (?) Oh and Tiger those Dailmers are a bitch. I am playing a PBEM right now that pits me the Germans against my best friend playing Brits. The bad part, I am defending but as a surprise I am sending three pnzIV on a endaround covered by a STUGIII. THat is what led me to the tests in the first place (MiGO you better not be reading this or I just might take our challenge public!). Oh and he loves AC's. I am so screwed!!!!!
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 10-13-2000).]
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I have and they work great. I have also tried half squads. The difference is this.
You "move" half squads through areas and in you make contact the half squad usually will not be eliminated. You pull back reform and bring up the rest of the platoon and crush the pocket.
I tend to "sneak" sharpshooters mainly due to the fact if you get spotted first you are dead. Also it is very hard to observe in the game. Sharpshooters would be ideal for movement up towards a treeline and then wait as tanks pass or whatever. This is very hard to set up. Also because you "sneak" them they are even more vunerable if bad movement paths are given because they only fire back after being fired upon. I had a veteran sharpshooter walk through a foxhole occupied by a German squad and continue on his path back turned to the squad (I know terrain is abstract). The fact that the squad didn't initially notice (excuse me...no pardon me..no no coming through....no me es German...don't I know you from somewhere?) is great but they just stood up and shot him in the back seconds later (unforgiving bastards). Then again I snuck one sharpshooter in the rear of an enemy, identified his main attack force and shot two tank commanders so what do I know?
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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I have suffered the same problem. The only answer is don't let the enemy know you are coming (I know lame obvious statement). I rushed a Lynx the other day with a full platoon and my opponent just reversed away and pounded my infantry. I use elevations and treelines to jump them not to mention buildings. The guys I play on the weekends fear coming into a town I occupy. Well at least their armor fears. Don't expect to get a vehicle in a straight run especially over multiple turns. That is the only answer I got.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Hey guys.
I have to agree that in CM 1500m LOS is near impossible. But in WWII did this happen often or at all? 1500m is 1.5KM which is over a mile if my math is right. WOW!. A mile is a loooong distance. Hmmmm?
The twenty more tests will be up on this post tomorrow. I will check in here some tonight though to break up the tests.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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I have to go to school but one last thing.
I love this game and I am not trying to point out weaknesses but I do love DISCUSSING these intricacies with the group. I will check in tonight or tomorrow morning. I find the Panzer IV's vunerability somewhat concerniong but then again what do I know. By the way if anybody knows of someone who served on Submarine Chaser 756 (SC756) in WWII please contact me. My grandfather did and I want to help him find his buddies. Anyways till later.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Okay faster this time. Same setup with 4 panzerIV vs. 4 Dailmer AC
Panzer/Dailmer
4/2
4/3
4/3
3/4
4/2
4/3
4/2
4/3
3/4
4/4 (thru this one out)
4/2
So there ya go. By the way if I read it correctly the Dailmer in June 44 had a 40mm. The fact that the Panzers won is good the fact that it cost them so much is bad. Also the Dailmers took a lot of wheel hits (expected). Also the panzers also had the most (expected) richocets. Out of the 44 panzers in the test 5 took serious gun hits. Just stuff I noticed. Dailmers took none. None of the 44 panzers was immobilized. Nothing lasted past turn 1 although the some turns made it to 55-57 sec. range. So?
[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 10-12-2000).]
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I was just having a bad movie day that is all!
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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okay here we go!!!
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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I do not self destruct. I am just jealous of all those Shermans and the pretty fires they make
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
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Tiger
Just put 3 PnzIV against 3 Greyhounds. OK the Greyhounds never once won in the 10 battles but half the time they were able to get one kill with their 37mm. Also the battles never lasted past the 1st turn. The longest was 41 seconds.
Rex
I have planned to do another twentey tonight just to see. That will be thirty so it should be enough. While luck does play into it I do wish I would have recorded richocets because it was REALLY lopsided.
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Just checked.
First off it was a basic M4 not the M4a1. Also I just bought tons of M4's in a QB to check ammo loadouts and not one had Tungsten. Was it available for the 75mm in June 44?
Hey tiger I will try it with armored cars now.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 10-12-2000).]
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Just did a test yesterday.
4 PnzIVG
vs.
4 M4A SHERMAN 75mm
Range 750m
10 test; clear day; open ground; regular crews
(kills=how many targets were eliminated)
Battle results
1.) Panzer 1 kills / shermans 4 kills
2.) panzer 2 kills / shermans 4 kills
3.) panzer 4 kills / shermans 3 kills
4.) panzer 3 kills / shermans 4 kills
5.) panzer 4 kills / shermans 2 kills
6.) panzer 0 kills / shermans 4 kills
7.) panzer 3 kills / shermans 4 kills
8.) panzer 2 kills / shermans 4 kills
9.) panzer 1 kills / shermans 4 kills
10.) panzer 3 kills / shermans 4 kills
HMMM...disturbing. This was a head on engagement. In fact only one of the battles lasted past the third turn. Turret speed had nothing to do with it. Also while I do not have numbers shells seemed alot more likely to bounce off of the shermans than the panzers. NOTE: June 1944 was the time period used. Any responses?
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest
[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 10-12-2000).]
Gamey Tactics by Priest
in Combat Mission Archive #2 (2000)
Posted
Okay first thing is that this is not a thread to discuss the evils of gaminess. Nor is this a flame thread because as a cyber community we need to be able to have discussions. So here it goes.
My position is that there is no "gamey" tactics just cheating (spotting round problem) and bad tactics (jeeps aka lambs to the slaughter). Now while I admit that there is some ahistorical uses of equipment and troops going on, to some extent isn't that the point. I am a WWII history buff, I love it. But I am also curious about the little things in the war that could have changed it. What if the King Tiger was common? What if Pershings were developed earlier? I see nothing wrong with this. I also see nothing wrong with group rules. But for this discussion I would like to raise some questions and gather opinions. First off here is something that happened to me. My friend and I were playing a hotseat game and he had about 5 jeeps tooling around. Now I had a platoon of men and two Heavy MG teams out in front of my main line. The two teams light up and by turn 3 or 4 all the jeeps are abandoned there crews being killed. Now did my opponent get to see to MG crews? Yes for a little bit. Did it hurt my overall plan? No not really. Did I eliminate around 110pts. of my opponents equipment for like nothing? Yes. My point is that if you happened to get burned by this tactic once you are going to cry "gamey" which I guess is somewhat true in the historical sense, maybe, but if you get a conclusion like I did you are saying "man this guy is an idiot!" Examples, discussion and opinions are welcome and thanks beforehand.
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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb
-Priest