Jager 7

Steve, Your concerns from your TOC observation/experience are noted. My point was it is completely possible to have rounds down range in a short time and likely in combat. The organization which slows things by its own weight also improves with experience and becomes more streamlined. WWII organization was not nearly as cumbersome as what your TOC scenario references. Bottom line - if they had good comm to a direct support battery in the ETO I would suppose they had responsive fires. I would not like to see the game changed to make it less responsive at all...I think it is just right. I was only commenting on a thread that talked about a typical repsonse time of 5-10 minutes on the modern battlefield. In manuever exercises at NTC or 29 Palms IMHO those times are on the long side for the most part. Out here ------------------ When the situation is obscure....attack! CGen. Heinz Guderian

Hey there JonS, Always great to meet fellow Fire Supporters. I agree with the low tech 1940's solution to gunnery problems. Two things that would have made a direct support battery even more responsive in 44/45 would have been, one: the lack of safety that we take for granted today. In combat most of that gets kicked aside to improve repsonsiveness...they had little to begin with as friendly fire casualties caused by arty in WWII was not uncommon. Two: the arty units in the ETO would not have undergone the turnover through casualties that the infantry units did, so they would have plenty of time and practice to hone their skills with the same crews...thus improving accuracy and timeliness. Again, I think CM does an excellent job of replicating all this...with the one exception that arty is worthless against concrete bunkers for the most part. Have a great day ------------------ When the situation is obscure....attack! CGen. Heinz Guderian

Good question....here's what works in real life. The FO calls to the FDC and requests they report "splash". On the next round and all subsequent rounds they will report "shot" when the round is fired...and "splash" five seconds before the round is to impact. That allows the FO to poke his head up, spot the round, then duck back down and call in his corrections. If two batteries are firing in the same area working for two FOs or there are mortars working the same zone splash allows the FO to distinguish his rounds. Hope that helps some. Out here. ------------------ When the situation is obscure....attack! CGen. Heinz Guderian

Greetings, I'm in the artillery business and an FO for the past 18 years. Today, in training, I can get adjustment rounds from Call For Fire (voice) to impact inside 90 seconds depending on the battery experience, FDC training etc. Using 4 adjustment rounds (successive bracketing...slow) I could go from CFF to FFE in 5 minutes. Using one round adjust or a hasty bracket it would likely be inside 3 minutes and could be closer to 2. Even with WWII comm I am confident that in a combat situation things might go a lot faster than normal. You could see a FFE inside 5 minutes with little adjustment, possibly 3 minutes. I think CM does an outstanding job of modeling arty and the FO's. Of course I might be slightly biased. : ) ------------------ When the situation is obscure....attack! CGen. Heinz Guderian

Great thread guys. I have to toss in my thoughts. I also have real world experience with arty (daily) and find that CM models it overall very well and exceptionally well compared to games that have come before. (I love seeing FO's in a game..very well done!) Face it, troops (and guns) in the open or in holes with little or no overhead cover that get hit with an accurate Fire For Effect are going to get hurt - period. I do however think that CM's arty is too destructive vs. bunkers and pillboxes. These targets in real life are among the absolute hardest to hit and to damage with arty. They are designed to withstand much more than a little 81mm mortar and his bigger brother the '05. Direct hits on concrete structures of this nature don't do much. That's why god made engineers with satchel charges and flamethrowers. Again let me say that I find the game overall to be a gem and I can't wait to get the finished version!!! ------------------ When the situation is obscure....attack! CGen. Heinz Guderian