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killmore

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Posts posted by killmore

    Soviet/Axis losses - some definite numbers here

    in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

    Posted

    Couple of more things to add:

    Soviet combat units directly involved into offensive suffered 22 to 25% casualties to accomplish their objective in 1944-1945 (See Fritz Stoeckli, "Wartime casualty rates: Soviet and German loss rates during the second world war, the prize of victory)

    Soviets never used 7th and 8th tank armies since these were created in 1944. They were in strategic reserve.

    By 1944 some soviet division had effective strength of 2000.

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    Soviet/Axis losses - some definite numbers here

    in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

    Posted

    You can skip the end of war figure of over 10 million losses for germans. I was suprised by that number too. Then again there was large loss of German life in the last month and obviously it includes lots of surrendering units.

    In this case you would need to count Soviet losses until april 1945 too.

    So aproximate the numbers you would get will be:

    Germany: 5,100,000 (over 80% east front - some claim 88%)

    Axis Allies: about 1,000,000? (east front)

    Soviet Union: 11,000,000

    Soviet allies: 200,000???

    So Soviet:Axis east front losses seem to be around 2:1

    [ July 25, 2002, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: killmore ]

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    Soviet/Axis losses - some definite numbers here

    in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

    Posted

    These numbers come from "When Titans clashed" David M. Glanz & Jonathan House 1995

    Axis had numeric advantage 1.4:1 in 22 June 1941 on eastern front

    Axis continued to have numerical advantage until December 1941

    By April 1945 Soviet+Allies had 3.5:1 advantage

    Losses - means Dead/Missing/POW

    Soviet losses: 11,285,057 (Note: Soviet allies losses not included but seems well under 500,000?)

    German losses by April 1945: 5,100,000 (by April 1945 - all fronts over 80% in the east - (see Table E))

    German losses east front : 10,758,000 east front war end (page 284)

    Axis allies east front total: 1,725,800 (959,000 dead) (Table E)

    Definitly seems less that 2:1 in losses to me.

    [ July 25, 2002, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: killmore ]

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    Russian vs German casualties

    in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

    Posted

    Originally posted by TSword:

    Already 2:1 is enourmous when one thinks for a human vs. human game (The average battle must about reflect the hist. casualty figures) !!!!

    Greets

    Daniel

    Only if you simulate exactly the way both sides behaved.

    I will not behave like average soviet commander. I refuse to attack with human waves over the large front. Therefore the casualty ratios will not be the same.

    If you force me to behave the same way as Soviet commander then what is the point of playing? I want to have a choice how to play!

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    Hitler's Legions by Mitcham

    in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Hannibal:

    I have the book.I am no going to quote the whole passage .The author does not say the unit was an SS formation .The book states that it was an elite unit with voluntiers from all of germany .

    Yeah, "volunteers"...

    I think "volunteering" into GrossD was described in "Forgotten Soldier"...

    It was something like: "Ok - you have just volunteered!"

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    Russian vs German casualties

    in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Michael emrys:

    Total Soviet dead in the war ~20-25 million.

    Total German dead ~13.5 million.

    Michael

    I am sure someone will ask whether the numbers include civilians? And why are these only German numbers? What about Hungarians trapped in Budapest?

    The german accounts list total of 18 million Soviet civilians killed by Germans. (If memory serves me right - yes I can find the source but I am too lazy)

    [ July 18, 2002, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: killmore ]

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    Russian vs German casualties

    in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

    Posted

    Magical 10:1 soviet losses are making frequent reapperance here.

    In terms of CMBO losses of 2:1 conscript with light tanks vs veterans with medium tanks seem quite reasonable. This was a situation at the begining of the war.

    I don't want BTS to penalize Soviet squads just because they were Soviet.

    We don't have to reproduce these losses in the game because our tactics will not be the same. There is not way I am attacking in human wave over 2 kilometer wide front.

    If at all I would concentrate my attacks on very small area to achieve break through.

    Lots of Soviet units surendered without much fighting too in 1941 these are still counted as casualties.

    I "believe" that Soviet vs Axis losses were about 5:2 in total. Notice that is AXIS not just GERMAN. (Common mistake!)

    That is fairly good considering how unprepared Soviet Union was and that conscripts were fighting veterans...

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    Will CMBB have the Americans? I can't recall.

    in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Thomas Goetz:

    [QB] </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by killmore:

    Actually there was a british fighter squadron in Soviet Union!

    I can't be positive about this, but I don't recall any actual British combat units deployed to the Soviet Union. They did send a fair number of combat aircraft, including Spitfires and Hurricanes, and usually sent various maintainence crews and pilots with them to teach the Russians how to use the equipment. Some of the British pilots flew combat missions as well. That may well account for reports of British fighter squadrons in Russia.

    QB]</font>

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