Bil Hardenberger

Yes, thanks for playing Elvis!! I had some hard moments in this one. Looking forward to the debrief. Bil

The way the NTC OPFOR fights has been a huge influence on how I approach things as well Scott. I went up against them with 1st Cav and we did rather well... of course I put that all down to the excellent intelligence section at the Brigade TOC.

Hehheh.. I knew there was more to you than you were letting on.

John, they were definitely firing on the move as they closed on Gelb. Those short rounds were actually aimed at the objective and were wild misses. This tank area fire was a historical tactic. Accuracy was not important, only suppression of anything on the objective was.

I think his mistake, and what gave me an opportunity was when he moved his armor forward a few turns ago.. I think he felt he had to do something.. he needed infantry with his armor, too bad he didn't pick up some tank riders so his tanks could get some intelligence. Seemed like he was trying to coordinate his infantry with the armor... but that infantry was never getting across that open ground successfully.

The result was inevitable... ...when you look at how I was hemming the big cat in. T34 HQ tank was hull down deep in the woods moving slowly until it achieved a clear spot... T34 #2, after killing the Hetzer last turn rushed across the railroad tracks, with the SMG Squad leading the way and closed off any retreat. The Panther never moved.. T34 HQ spotted and fired, achieved two penetrations, though the first one was the killing blow. ISU Section The ISU's pulled into position, one had the task of killing the flak gun, the other was to reduce the infantry concentration as shown... both achieved hits. The flak had previously been abandoned (I had been pouring HMG fire into it for several turns.. must have paid off) so next turn both will concentrate on the infantry concentration. Nearing the End As can be seen from this overview of this part of the battlefield, Elvis is close to the end... oh, by the way, though an enemy contact is showing in Blau in this image, that objective was finally cleared of the last stubborn defender. That flamethrower team was one tough SOB. I'm looking forward to seeing his kill stats.

Remember the T34-85/SMG Platoons Deep Strike? Now watch the DEEP STRIKE VIDEO made up of scenes taken from three minutes of action.

Steve, my math only gives him one tank remaining, the Panther... I think I would have noticed another one by now. In case you missed it he has lost both Hetzers now, one last turn, and the one this turn. So 2:1 in my favor in the last two turns.

TANK versus TANK Two notable actions this turn... let's roll our sleeves up and get right into it... First up, T34 #1 versus the Panther.. the T34 gets the first shot off.. but... well, rule of thumb in tank warfare... do NOT miss. Watch the video: T34 v Panther Then I crept forward with T34 #2 and took a shot at Hetzer1. Watch the video: T34 v Hetzer Here is the current situation.. note the enemy infantry unit coming out the top of KT6... Next turn I am peeling off the ISU-122s and attacking the flak gun and starting to get some fire on to ROT.

John, thanks for that detail I appreciate it. Miquel, also good stuff, I had seen that monograph before but never dived deeply into it. I'm going to have to do that it looks very interesting. My whole point was that at the tactical level it appears to me that there was some flexibility, some people in this and a few other forums seem to believe that there was little to no tactical flexibility. This is the point I was trying to make with this thread. The entire command and decision making process the Soviet Army went through at levels close to CM really interest me. Sure it appears they used Command Push almost exclusively, but that doesn't mean the commander on the ground didn't have control over his force... I think these two examples show that they did.

This Hetzer (Hetzer 2) had not been previously hit by anything. The surviving Hetzer (Hetzer 1) is the one that was peppered by the aircraft cannon.. it is still sitting in the same position it has been since then... looking an awful lot like it night be immobilized.

Elvis made a push this turn.. he moves Hetzer 2 and the Panther into the woodline attempting to get eyes on my T34s... ...this is the first I've actually laid eyes on Hetzer 2 for a long time now... ...T34 #1 takes aim, fires, and knocks out the Hetzer with one round. Note the penetrations, both entrance and exit holes are highlighted. Finally, the Panther moves into view, T34 #1 again takes aim and fires, it gets a hit (can you spot the decal?), and other than some internal spalling it does not appear there is any damage. the Panther fired at the T34 before coming to a halt, missing high. Both tanks are frantically reloading... I am not hulldown to the Panther from this location. Next turn, one of these tanks will fall.

I have always contended that the Soviet army was not the mindless mass that some contend. The following two anecdotes illustrate that the Russian army could be quick on its feet and could indeed utilize its forces with synchronization, intelligence, and effectiveness. This first example illustrates a failure, the lessons learned and identification of errors made after the anecdote are spot on. So reconnaissance, gain as much information as possible before committing, and coordinate your forces. I have tried to instill these basic tenets in all of my AARs. Some very good lessons in the above if you care to dissect them and learn from the experience. The second anecdote: What amazes me in this anecdote is that the Russian commander performed a detailed terrain analyses, he used the information gained from reconnaissance in planning his attack, and then he coordinated his tanks and infantry when making the final attack. Pretty nice work, I don't care what the nationality of the force is. It confirms a lot in my mind that these techniques are not new, they were not new even in WW2 and most Armies had similar techniques in approaching a situation. The article finishes with: Please share your thoughts on this article, what stands out to you? Are you surprised how well these Russian units performed? Are you surprised that the force was not mindless, but was in fact controlled by its commander and coordinated in real time? (note: this content came from Lone Sentry

I will promise to keep one of mu ISU-122s buttoned for the rest of the game, how's that? I am not convinced... can someone show me where that was indeed ordered for all Russian tanks to be buttoned up when in combat? Something period with links to a Russian manual or order would be great. After that we can have the discussion.. but as I see it my armor is already at a severe disadvantage regards spotting as it is.

BLAU The UI gun that I have had my eyes on for the past few turns.. well I found out the hard way that it's a flak gun. Good information to know. Well positioned too. Also on Blau, that damned flamethrower took down two more of my guys, but at least I got the guy with the tanks on his back and his assistant was cowering at turn end. That was a tough team, I hope Elvis nominates them for a decoration... he has my respect for how he handled them. Bravo Elvis. The good news is that other than the flamethrower team Blau seems to have been abandoned, though I still have a few more buildings to look at. GELB Near Gelb my T34-85 eased into position.. but seems to be just shy of spotting the enemy tanks. It still seems to be unspotted, I may need to ease it forward just a little more to spot those panzers. ISU-122s Moving on up...

I agree some FOW would not go astray as far as hit decals are concerned... still, they add tremendously to the game, and I was a huge skeptic when they were announced, but the way they work in game is amazing. Maybe in the next iteration some FOW for hit decals can be added.

Vin, it comes in on its own.. its quite frustrating too, never to your schedule, and often it hits friendly forces. But I love the way it feels in-game, and now that AAA can attempt to keep aircraft at bay air is in its proper place IMO.

On Blau The flamethrower is being handled very well by Elvis.. he is shifting it from building to building and catching me flat footed.. well now I know his tactic I should be able to pin this damn team.. costs me another three casualties this turn. Enemy Panzers Okay Elvis's panzers are fixated on my forces on Gelb... note that they are still buttoned. Meanwhile one T34 is attempting to get a flank on this enemy armor while the other two fired into the woodline to block LOS... the enemy armor showed no sign that they noticed my streaking T34. Buttoned like that I wonder if he will even get sound contacts...

Here is the Video of the IL2 attack on the Hetzer Enjoy!

Childress, the terrain they are moving through is clear as far as I can tell.. I had a scout team kill a flamethrower team along this route just last turn (forgot to report on that).. also, I WANT him to notice this armor moving.. plus my T34 moving.. I have no doubt he will at least get sound contacts. When he notices them he will have a decision to make.

I finally got eyes on Hetzer-1 this turn and was able to do some BDA... check out the hit locations on this vehicle.. and those all look like penetrations to me. It is running though, I hope it suffered some damage at least. My Plan for Dealing with the Enemy Armor I need to do something to break the stalemate with the enemy armor.. well really I could leave well enough alone and wait for him to come to me.. but I think he might be in a vulnerable position and need to act now. My ISU-122 section are moving as fast as possible to take up hulldown positions on the enemy panzer's flank (moving through scouted terrain and masked from the UI Gun near ROT)... ...meanwhile the T34s will be laying some more obscuration in the treeline in front of the enemy armor and one at a time I am going to maneuver a couple T34s on the panzer's other flank. I started this maneuver this turn.. but my moving T34 bogged for most of the turn.. so the rounds fired to obscure enemy visibility were wasted. It broke free right at turn end.. so I need to fire into the woods one more time to mask this movement somewhat, as from a few points along this movement it could be vulnerable.

No action this turn, just some maneuver and shifting... here is an overview of the stuation as it currently stands: I am going to put a couple movies together today, one the air attack as requested and secondly I wanted to compile a movie from events over several turns for the deep strike on Gelb. Stay tuned for those.

BLAU Damn... Elvis left his flamethrower team in place.. I should have been more careful as I knew it was in that building previously.. but there you go. Three casualties, but at least I know where it is now and can take action against it. This is interesting.. this is the first time I have been on the receiving end of a flamethrower attack, but if you do not have LOS to the enemy flame unit, you cannot see the flame jet, only the black smoke. Elvis should have some pretty pictures to show of his flamethrower firing out both ends of that building. Enemy Armor The Hetzer (Hetzer-1) backed into a hulldown position this turn, and was immediately hit by my aircraft! It is only a strafer though so I doubt it did much damage. All three tanks are definitely up here, and Elvis moved his Panther in closer, while Hetzer-1 moved back.. I only have a sound contact on Hetzer-2. Note the UI gun in the background on the way to ROT. It appears that Elvis is going to be happy with bottling up my T34s on Gelb, though his Panther seems kind of aggressive...

The ISUs have a crew of 5, so 3 left in that vehicle.

GELB The Hetzer spot kept going in and out.. but it just sat there the entire turn.. I never got a whiff of the second Hetzer and am now starting to doubt my feeling that it is also up north orienting on Gelb. I need to locate that thing... a sound contact would suffice. The Panther started moving north as well this turn. BOTH of these tanks are buttoned. BLAU I am starting to move through Blau now, no enemy contacts spotted at all. Could be the thing has been abandoned. Two spotting rounds fall north of Blau this turn... an artillery mission up there makes no sense. SITUATION The current situation shows: 5th Company - moving to seal off any escape from KT6. I do not need to kill the enemy units that have retreated into this mass of woods, I just need to make sure they can't escape. All of my support assets are going to move to the center to support a push to ROT. 4th Company - clearing BLAU, if clear will immediately start moving on ROT, especially with Elvis's armor moving on GELB. SMG Platoon (south of BLAU) - starting a pursuit of the enemy infantry seen running from BLAU ISU-122s - as soon as I discover the location of the second Hetzer I may move them as indicated to hit the enemy armor in the flank. T34 platoon/SMG platoon - preparing for a counter-attack on GELB - will hold positions until more information is gathered then will move to eliminate the enemy armor, or will wait and take it on as it moves in (if it moves in).