? on Brit 6th Airborne TO& E

[Kingfish]

Looking for TO&E info on the 22nd independent parachute company, specifically at squad level. Was it organized like the other para formations of 6th AB? Did it include any PIAT or 2" mortars in its makeup?

Also, did the 53rd airlanding light regiment only have 75mm howitzers or larger calibur guns as well?

[JonS]

Assume you are talking about 6-June-44 period?

53rd had only the 75mm. However, fairly promptly (ie, by about mid-day on the 6th) 6th AB Div also had access to the div arty of 3rd (Brit) Div (who were using 105mm Priests at that time) and the 5.5" Mdms of 68th or 79th Mdm Regts. Oh, and of course various FOB parties landed with the main waves to provide access to all the NGS lying off shore and to TAC air.

22nd Indep Coy was orgged in 3 pns of 33 men each. One pn landed at each of the main DZs. Each pn was in turn orgged as three sticks of 11 men. AFAIK, they only carried personal weapons, in addition to all the misc claggage they carried to call the subsequent waves in.

[Kingfish]

Assume you are talking about 6-June-44 period?

June 12th to be exact.

53rd had only the 75mm. However, fairly promptly (ie, by about mid-day on the 6th) 6th AB Div also had access to the div arty of 3rd (Brit) Div (who were using 105mm Priests at that time) and the 5.5" Mdms of 68th or 79th Mdm Regts.

Do you know when they switched from the Priests to 25-pdrs?

Also, do you know which arty regiments participated in the battle for Breville on that date? This site suggests 5 regiments were involved.

[JonS]

Switch was in late July.

Will follow up on the other.

[Kingfish]

E-mail me direct. I have another non-related question.

[JonS]

You got mail.

[JonS]

KF, I've sent a series of emails over the last few days, but I've also been having some problems with emails apparently not being delivered. Could you confirm receipt please?

[Kingfish]

Got 7 total, with the last being the TO&E for the 22nd.

Great stuff, especially the Brit OH doc. I was surprised to read that the actual attack went in around 10pm.

BTW, on a totally unrelated matter, would you happen to know which AGRA, if any, supported the Kiwis in their drive on Florence? I'm guessing that whatever army level tubes supported the Kiwis also were available to the South Africans, whom held the line to the east.

[ January 28, 2007, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Kingfish ]

[JonS]

Originally posted by Kingfish:

Got 7 total

Good.

which AGRA, if any, supported the Kiwis in their drive on Florence? I'm guessing that whatever army level tubes supported the Kiwis also were available to the South Africans, whom held the line to the east.

Off the top, no, but I can find out fairly easily - can you give me a particular date or date-range?.

Were the Kiwis and the Yarpies in the same Corps at that time though? If not, then your assumption may not be valid (beyond extreme targets, like a VICTOR or WILLIAM). From memory, the relevant British OH will tend to cover that reasonably well ... I helped Rune with a scen set in that area (well, roughly in that area) a few years ago, and recall that it had that info.

BTW, AGRA != army-level.

[Kingfish]

Were the Kiwis and the Yarpies in the same Corps at that time though?

Yarpies? Thats a good one.

Yes, they were both in Brit XIII Corp (or is it Corps...where's Dorosh?) during the end of July / August '44. In fact, they were side by side in a race for the first to enter the city.

BTW, AGRA != army-level.

AGRAs had 5.5" and up, right?

[JonS]

Originally posted by Kingfish:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />BTW, AGRA != army-level.

AGRAs had 5.5" and up, right? </font>

[JonS]

Originally posted by Kingfish:

Got 7 total, with the last being the TO&E for the 22nd.

Note that I was wrong about the armament of the Indep Coys though - they were reasonably heavily armed.

Great stuff, especially the Brit OH doc. I was surprised to read that the actual attack went in around 10pm.

Remember that the Brits were - at this stage - on Double Daylight Savings, and that the nights in Normandy were quite short anyway. Further, I assume (heh) that they used British time rather than French time. In sum, that means that 10pm was probably something like an hour to an hour and a half before sunset, or sumfink.

Using this site: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html

I get the following information:

The following information is provided for Breville (longitude W 0°13', latitude N 49°14'):

Monday, 12 June 1944, Universal Time

SUN

Begin civil twilight 03:12

Sunrise 03:55

Sun transit 12:01

Sunset 20:06

End civil twilight 20:49

MOON

Moonrise 23:58 on preceding day

Moon transit 04:59

Moonset 10:09

Moonrise 00:28 on following day

Phase of the Moon on 12 June: waning gibbous with 63% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.

Last quarter Moon on 13 June 1944 at 15:57 Universal Time.

With double daylight savings that pushes sunset to 22.06, so it seems the attack went in right on sunset.

[ January 29, 2007, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[John Kettler]

Kingfish,

Since you're busy attacking Florence, I believe you'll find this of interest and maybe even genuine utility.

http://www.lonesentry.com/tigerflorence/index.html

Regards,

John Kettler

[JonS]

Based on the Kiwi Guns OH (NZETC, as ever) in spt of the Kiwis during this period were:

1 AGRA

142 (Royal Devon Yeo) Army Fd Regt (SP 105mm)

57 (Home Counties) Fd Regt (25-pr) (from 6 British Armoured Division according to NZOH Italy vol II)

70 Mdm Regt (?.5-in)

75 (Shropshire Yeo) Mdm Regt (?.5-in)

?? Hy Regt (incl 7.2" Hows, not sure if it had 155s too. If it was an NWE unit it would, but this is Italy ...)

All units RA (as opposed to NZA, SAA, etc)

142 Fd was one of those independant army-level units I talked about above. 70 Med was part of 1 AGRA, but 75 Med was nominally with 10 AGRA. The hy regt was part of 1 AGRA. 57 Fd Regt was nominally part of 2 AGRA. (source: Nigel Evans' site)

It is unlikely that 142 Fd supported the Yarpies (it was assigned to 4th NZ Armd Bde), but the others may have. In early Aug (~1st-5th) 4 Fd Regt, NZA, fired across the divisional boundary in support of the Boers.

1 AGRA also included:

58 (Suffolk) Med Regt

70 Med Regt

54 Hy Regt

4 Med Regt (occasionally)

(source: Nigel Evans' site)

1 AGRA was with 5 Corps

2 AGRA was with 10 Corps

10 AGRA was with 2 & 4(US) Corps

(source: Nigel Evans' site)

23 Jan:

I have another non-related question.

Ok, I'm curious

[ January 29, 2007, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[Guest Mike]

from http://www.milhist.net/ordbat/5corpsbr.html:

1 AGRA on 9 April 1945:

- 1st Army Group, Royal Artillery

- 4th Medium Regiment (5.5in) [-1sec]

- 26th Medium Regiment (4.5in) [-1trp]

- 58th Medium Regiment (5.5in)

- 70th Medium Regiment (4.5in)

- 80th Medium Regiment (5.5in)

- 75th Heavy Regiment (Mixed)

- 125th Meteorological Section

According to another page on that site the 54th super-heavy regiment had 8" guns if that's the unit meant by the "54th heavy regt" - I can't find any reference to a 54th heavy regt otherwise.

Edit - found it - http://members.tripod.com/~nigelef/regtsumm.htm#hyregt

54 Heavy regt was changed to 54 Superheavy REgt in Feb 1945.

[ January 29, 2007, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organist ]