German losses vs. West and East

[blue division]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Er. No. The stability of the truck is dependent on the distance between wheels, provided that there are at least four, one at each corner. You could have 30 wheels, but if all are in a line, it's no more stable than a single rollerblade.

You are correct about having a wheel in each corner, but ...

Are you assuming that that the truck is driving across a surface that is completely flat?

What if it is a very uneven surface such as an improvised wooden bridge or road? One that also is slippery with mud and oil?

And if that surface is on a slope, and your truck is already overloaded (as I am sure they were in Russia) - what happens in a 4x4 truck when one of the rear wheels looses contact with the road? I would expect the truck to violently pitch to one side. And that could be enough to have your truck lying on its side.

This is very common on rough roads with overloaded trucks. Seen it myself in third world countries loads of times.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by blue division:

You are correct about having a wheel in each corner, but ...

Are you assuming that that the truck is driving across a surface that is completely flat?

Nope.

What if it is a very uneven surface such as an improvised wooden bridge or road? One that also is slippery with mud and oil?

And if that surface is on a slope, and your truck is already overloaded (as I am sure they were in Russia) - what happens in a 4x4 truck when one of the rear wheels looses contact with the road? I would expect the truck to violently pitch to one side. And that could be enough to have your truck lying on its side.

This is very common on rough roads with overloaded trucks. Seen it myself in third world countries loads of times.

It would have to be one hell of a pothole, a very poorly loaded truck and a fair bit of speed. The worst occurance would be if a front wheel dropping into a big hole, and that would mess up a 6 wheeler as well, as the extra wheels are at the back (at least that's true of the ones of the period). Also, the rear wheels on WWII 6 wheelers are very close together, so if one wheel goes into the hole/over the edge, then the other would probably go in too.

[coe]

Hey all

I went away for little bit and

wow, I never thought my thread would go to 250 messages...(I wonder if it is due to my low membership number)....

Interesting that the ratio was 1.6:1 in terms losses on the eastern front in the last years of the war - in the German's favor.

From the accounts I have read of western front operations it seems that even when primarily on the defensive, the German losses were not favorable (e.g. Lorraine, first few days of Anzio (even when the Ranger unit was destroyed))...that I am puzzled about.

Conan

P.S. Did the Luftwaffe flak battery commander at Cagny (the one who von Luck held a pistol to him and said something like "your a dead man or you can earn yourself a medal") ever get a medal or was the commander a casualty or what?

C.

[blue division]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

It would have to be one hell of a pothole, a very poorly loaded truck and a fair bit of speed. The worst occurance would be if a front wheel dropping into a big hole, and that would mess up a 6 wheeler as well, as the extra wheels are at the back (at least that's true of the ones of the period). Also, the rear wheels on WWII 6 wheelers are very close together, so if one wheel goes into the hole/over the edge, then the other would probably go in too. [/QB]

True, but I know what sort of truck I would rather be in if I was offroading. One with as many wheels as possible. Particulary driving over improvised bridges and roads.

As for the front wheels losing contact - well if your load is in the back then that will keep you stable (ie the counter weight will keep you balanced). Unless you are going at speed, in which case you are f*****. But as the max speed of these vehicles is 45 mph, and probably a lot less over rough terrain, this isn't a factor.

And the heavier the load, the more this would apply. Apparently the Russians always overloaded their trucks.

[blue division]

Originally posted by coe:

Hey all

I went away for little bit and

wow, I never thought my thread would go to 250 messages...(I wonder if it is due to my low membership number)....

Interesting that the ratio was 1.6:1 in terms losses on the eastern front in the last years of the war - in the German's favor.

From the accounts I have read of western front operations it seems that even when primarily on the defensive, the German losses were not favorable (e.g. Lorraine, first few days of Anzio (even when the Ranger unit was destroyed))...that I am puzzled about.

Conan

C.

The Germans have always used counter-attack when they have lost ground, part of their doctrine as far as I know.

Apparently during one part of the battle at Anzio the yanks were shooting them down as fast as they appeared. (When the Germans were trying to push them back into the sea). A complete turkey-shoot.

And given the amount of artillery that was used by the Allies and the Russians, no surprise that there are plenty of German casualties. Artillery being the big killer on the battlefield.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by blue division:

True, but I know what sort of truck I would rather be in if I was offroading. One with as many wheels as possible. Particulary driving over improvised bridges and roads.

As for the front wheels losing contact - well if your load is in the back then that will keep you stable (ie the counter weight will keep you balanced). Unless you are going at speed, in which case you are f*****. But as the max speed of these vehicles is 45 mph, and probably a lot less over rough terrain, this isn't a factor.

And the heavier the load, the more this would apply. Apparently the Russians always overloaded their trucks.

Agreed that a six wheeler is better for off-roading, but that's more a function of having more traction and lower ground pressure.

Counter balancing only works if you have a significant weight behind the back axle. If the load is forward of the pivot point (back axle for both front wheels, a line between the front and opposite rear wheels for the other front wheel) then it will act to push the truck down.

[blue division]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blue division:

True, but I know what sort of truck I would rather be in if I was offroading. One with as many wheels as possible. Particulary driving over improvised bridges and roads.

As for the front wheels losing contact - well if your load is in the back then that will keep you stable (ie the counter weight will keep you balanced). Unless you are going at speed, in which case you are f*****. But as the max speed of these vehicles is 45 mph, and probably a lot less over rough terrain, this isn't a factor.

And the heavier the load, the more this would apply. Apparently the Russians always overloaded their trucks.

Agreed that a six wheeler is better for off-roading, but that's more a function of having more traction and lower ground pressure.

Counter balancing only works if you have a significant weight behind the back axle. If the load is forward of the pivot point (back axle for both front wheels, a line between the front and opposite rear wheels for the other front wheel) then it will act to push the truck down. </font>

[coe]

one member has just commented that this thread is in the wrong forum. He may be correct as I was unsure as to which forum to put a topic that covered both East and West at the same time. Please move this to the proper forum if this isn't the proper one.

Thanks.

Conan