glacey Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I play CMBO because I die very quickly in CMBB and don't feel it's all that realistic but that's another topic. B.U.E is a strange operation in that every turn there is a naval 14" bombardment which is new to me. These guns seem to fire low yield nuclear devices. I have a screen shot of my whole army wiped out by two shells. The dead extend to 4 x the circumference of the craters. There are no sighting shots and the fire is deadly accurate. The fire, strangely, stops after 1 salvo. Why? Because it is so abnormally powerful and accurate that if it continued for a realistic period of time there would be part of the map missing! I would not advise playing this operation as AXIS as the success of the ALLIED is almost entirely dependent on nuclear war. Of course, with prior knowledge of the lethality of this satellite controlled barrage one can take steps to limit the damage but that is not the game. I have to say that the use of such a tool is a cop out for a poorly designed scenario but that is only the opinion of a player. glacey 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by glacey: I have to say that the use of such a tool is a cop out for a poorly designed scenario but that is only the opinion of a player. Send your vote to: http://ns9.super-hosts.com/~dragonlair.net/combatmission/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Kernow Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I have to say I disagree totally. BUE is an excellent 2 player OP on an epic scale. There is not a naval bombardment "every turn" as the FO obviously has limited ammo. It is not a nucklear war by any means but an accurate portyal of how devasting naval bombardment can be against german counter attacks towards the landing beaches of normandy. This scenario really gives a flavour of what those battles must have been like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacey Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 Sorry, by 'turn' I mean't each phase of the operation. It's a pity I can't show the screenshot. 2 shell holes and a completely annihilated (all dead) army. I had these guys lying down hiding in expectation of the holocaust and still they died. Blast usually goes over peoples heads or at least kills rather more randomly than a nuclear air burst. Moan mode off. meditek [ January 24, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: glacey ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emar Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 As the scenario designer I thought I could shine a little light on this issue. Although listed as semi historical I did some thorough research on these initial battles for Caen and Carpiquet. In fact it is only because the map is one half scale and the OOB has been downsized that I list it as S-H as the units and armour involved are correct including the Allied Naval presence. The 14 inch naval salvos in this scenario are indeed devastating as you mentioned.However as Mr Kernow suggested in his post they are also entirely realistic. A single Salvo from the supporting battleships and cruisers offshore could send over ten tons of high explosive hurtling towards a single target miles away. Unfortunately for 12th SS Hitlerjugend these barrages became a part of daily life for the entire Normandy campaign. Such devastation tossed 46 ton tanks around like childs toys in a playroom. In fact their commander Fritz Witt was killed on June 14th when his command post was obliterated by one of these salvos forcing the promotion of Kurt Meyer to divisional commander. These naval barrages were used against the 21st panzers counterattack on the 6th and repeatedly against HJ on the 7th and 8th to slow their momentum. This was the Allies saving grace as HJ threw itself into the fray on the 7th with a fanatical fury unseen before in this century. In fact at the risk of starting a debate on this forum I believe that without these barrages and the Allied domination of the skies over Normandy HJ would have decimated its opponents in short order and put the invasion front in a shambles. Not to include these Allied assets in this scenario would have been rewriting history and would have signifigantly changed the balance in the Axis's favor. This is why I suggested in the briefing for 2 player that the experianced commander play as the Germans. That does not mean that the scenario can not be won as the Axis but it is tough. Against the AI it is fairly easy to avoid this problem as the AI will usually only target grouped up units with the 14 inchers(I learned this the hard way after losing an entire company, 2 halftracks, 2 AA guns and a Panzer IV to one barrage while playtesting the scenario)the AI however will often not use its naval assets at all if no lucrative target is presented (I have played through all 11 battles with only one or two salvos fired against me by the AI) . Against a human opponent tactics will be much as the real life tactics were. Don't bunch up units, hide all units during the day, shoot only at worthwhile targets and move to a new hiding place after shooting,and expect to lose a unit every battle to barrages anyway (these suggestions work against aircraft as well). In short, if this inclusion of these realistic units makes this a poor scenario then I guess I am guilty of making a poor scenario. BTW I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has actually gone all the way to completion with 2 player on this huge scenario. Although the first few battles were tested that way I have never had anyone complete the entire campaign. Also I have been in the process of revamping and expanding the map from 2k to 2.5 k wide with 2 more towns and more room to manuever and hide from barrages (since it wasn't big enough, LOL)and also tweaking other aspects of this operation and as soon as the authors only section is up and running at the depot I will post it as version 2.0 [ January 25, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Emar ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookster Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Emar, Well said. Wish I still had CM:BO so I could play your operation, but my addiction to CM:BO sucked the marrow out of my life so I had to snap the disk in half. (Same with CM:BB.) Now I'm just a message board whore. p.s. Good to see people putting in the time and effort designing an operation! Glacey, I understand your point about those big guns, but historically that's what happened. Tiger tanks were blown 15 feet in the air by those shells. As far as playability is concerned, I think the operation is listed as versus AI - it should be biased in a head-to-head game. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacey Posted January 25, 2003 Author Share Posted January 25, 2003 Thanks for the input guys and especially Emar's elucidatory comments. Of course I shall now be very much more careful when naval guns are around! I had no idea they were so devastating. In fact, being very much a part time player I thought at first that they were bombs then read a bit more! Truth is that I was rushing for the coast with a well preserved army bunched up (OK BIG mistake). Amazing what the sight and smell of the sea can do to your brain. meditek 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 my record is 29 vehicles knocked out by a 'naval blast.' .. pretty much every afv, truck, or prime mover within a 200 meter radius... i was playing against the ai and tried to 'regroup' in order to 'continue the attack' but really, after that my forces were 'out of steam'... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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