Troops Mounting Vehicles

[gunner@iol27.com]

I suppose I may have missed it when I read the manual, but I have been unable to find instructions on how to have troops mount a vehicle, such as mounting a truck or tank. The manual describes how to dismount, but I can't find anything specific on how to mount.

Can anyone give me some help on this? Thanks.

[YankeeDog]

Infantry can't ride on tanks in CMBN -- it was judged too difficult to code for something that would probably only be done infrequently in a combat zone (as opposed to behind the lines in relatively safe areas).

But to mount other vehicles like Trucks, Jeeps and Halftracks, just select the infantry unit and start to plot the movement order of your choice (Move, Quick, Fast, etc.) Hold the cursor over the vehicle; if the vehicle has enough seats to hold the unit, the cursor will change to a downward pointing arrow, indicating that the unit will embark in that vehicle at the end of that movement order.

[c3k]

Note that a unit can either load or unload, not both, in the same command period. E.g., if you unload a team from a halftrack and try to load it into a truck with the same movement order, it will not allow the load order. In WeGo, you need to wait until the unit is fully unloaded from one vehicle before you load it into another.

Ken

[Michael Emrys]

Hold the cursor over the vehicle...

Putting the cursor on the vehicle's floating icon also works, in some cases even better. I do that as a matter of course now.

Michael

[Canada Guy]

Could you not just create spots like you do in a normal vehicle and allow troops to occupy those empty spots? Is it the cover/concealment or what that would make it awkward to code? I imagine that some animations would be required but beyond that I do not see the difficulties.

Was riding on tanks close to the front lines only done on the Ostfront? I have seen a few pics where troops were on tanks very close to the front lines (though these pics could have been staged).

[Michael Emrys]

Could you not just create spots like you do in a normal vehicle and allow troops to occupy those empty spots? Is it the cover/concealment or what that would make it awkward to code? I imagine that some animations would be required but beyond that I do not see the difficulties.

There were also critical problems with being able to code the effects of fire on the riders incoming from multiple directions. Not insoluble, but requiring much work and time.

Michael

[YankeeDog]

Could you not just create spots like you do in a normal vehicle and allow troops to occupy those empty spots? Is it the cover/concealment or what that would make it awkward to code? I imagine that some animations would be required but beyond that I do not see the difficulties.

Was riding on tanks close to the front lines only done on the Ostfront? I have seen a few pics where troops were on tanks very close to the front lines (though these pics could have been staged).

The Russians relied on tank riding closer to combat more than the Western Allies more out of necessity than anything else -- less trucks and jeeps.

There are a whole host of issues that have to be tackled to get tank-riding right. The animations required would be fairly complex; much more so than for guys sitting in a truck, where the body position is more or less the same for each passenger. Capacity is another issue, and isn't necessarily limited to just straight-up # of seats -- for example what kinds of heavy weapons can be carried on a tank? Probably a tripod MG, but maybe not a medium mortar.

How fast can a tank go with passengers over rough terrain without risk of pitching someone off? If the tank comes under fire while moving with passengers aboard, what happens? Do the passengers dive off while the tank is still moving, or hang on and hope the tank move out of the danger zone quickly? What happens if someone gets wounded while riding a tank? Do they lose their grip and fall off?

What about a pintle-mounted AAMG on the tank? Should the passengers be able to use it? Under what conditions? What about acquiring ammo? Should a squad be able to borrow an MG belt or two from a tank?

There are probably more... just what I could think of off of the top of my head.

[Canada Guy]

You are both right in that I only gave it a cursory thought but I can see why it would be more difficult than first imagined. Cover/concealment from multiple directions plus weapons plus wounded plus ...

Having a weapon occupyna spot might be possible but then yu also have to start thinking of each weapons bulkiness and stability.

I would like to see it when the East Front finally does arrive but hopefully by then that is the only thing left for the CM bunch to really worry about.

[Michael Emrys]

...what kinds of heavy weapons can be carried on a tank? Probably a tripod MG, but maybe not a medium mortar.

I can't recall seeing pics of anything heavier than an LMG, and damned few of those. Doesn't mean it never happened. I suppose that if they knew that they would not be encountering any enemy before they reached their destination, some way of lashing weapons on board securely could be arranged. But if it was done, it was either extremely rare or so commonplace that nobody found it worth mentioning. My guess is the former.

Michael

[c3k]

It'd be tough to keep men on top of tanks once the sound of bullets are in the air. Even the desantniki filmed by the Soviets would jog alongside the tanks in actual battle areas. The whole tank-rider thing was a lot more of a rear area exercise rather than a heroic ride to assault the enemy.

[Michael Emrys]

I feel so disillusioned.

Michael

[YankeeDog]

I can't recall seeing pics of anything heavier than an LMG, and damned few of those. Doesn't mean it never happened. I suppose that if they knew that they would not be encountering any enemy before they reached their destination, some way of lashing weapons on board securely could be arranged. But if it was done, it was either extremely rare or so commonplace that nobody found it worth mentioning. My guess is the former.

Michael

I have encountered some evidence for at least smaller tripod MGs like the M1919A4 and mortars riding on tanks; I've seen some images and read about it here and there.

For example, from what I've read, the historical Task Force Raff did actually have mortars with them from the Mortar platoon of the 3/508th. Note "Mortar platoon of the 3/508th" would seem to indicate the battalion 81mm mortars, not Company 60mm mortars (though TF Raff may have had 60mm mortars as well; I don't recall). Best I can recall, TF Raff had no dedicated transport vehicles like Trucks or Halftracks, and the entire infantry force rode on the tanks, so the mortars must have ridden on the tanks.

This doesn't necessarily prove that this was commonplace, though, and as you note, for all we know there might have been some additional effort to secure the mortars (and accompanying ammo & equipment) on the tanks.

If, hypothetically, it should require several minutes of tying down the tubes, baseplates & ammo, and then another couple of minutes untying and unloading everything at the drop-off point to move an 81mm mortar on a Sherman, then I doubt CM players would ever use a feature like this, since at the distances involved in the CM scale it would generally be faster and more efficient to just have the mortar teams leg it.

But I do look forward to the day when we can move at least rifle squads by tank again. The absence of this feature certainly isn't a game-killer for me, and there are probably a few other things I would put higher on the "The List", but there have been several occasions already on larger maps where I have found myself wishing I could use my Shermans to shift a reserve platoon of infantry around in a rear area where it's relatively safe, or similar.