dickesKind Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Hello everybody! After a while I returned to CMBB playing some great games with a friend. But last game was a bit frustrating for me. QB in June 1942, middle. 3000pts. meeting engagement. I (Ger) bought 6 StuG/F 50mm knowing that I will have to handle a massive armored force of 15 T34. I was confident in the power of my StuGs if used in a correct way. So right in the first round a platoon of my StuGs had visual contact with 2 T34 Mod.42 over a distance of 1200 m. After a short firefight two of my StuGs went up in flames, while the third had its gun damaged, taking out only one of the two T34 and a lot of own shells missing their target. Ok, frustrating, but it was just bad luck I thougt. A few minutes later. my second platoon had a platoon of T34 coming in their sight. Before the first shot was fire the three T34 had a visual too with my StuGs. A firefight started, with a result of one T34 in flames and three abandoned StuGs. The distance was about 300-400 meters. My StuGs had fired about 10 shots, with only 3! hits. So whats up with those StuGs in CMBB? Best optics, great gun. But they aimed like a poor infantry gun and the T34 hit with 90% of their shots. Was this whole game just bad luck, or are StuGs really that poor in CMBB? I mean the Sturmartillerie was an elite troop with an great rate of loss:kills. Veterans told me that they where even selfconfident facing the enemy with a rate of 1:4. Greetings... PS: Also had an 88mm recoiling from a T34 turret at 300m 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kineas Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 The 80mm variants are the real tank killers. In the first case, the 1200m distance is at the verge of the effective range of the 75L43. The second case was a melee fight. Maybe this also contributed, but I think you had bad luck or the enemy tanks were more (1-2 levels higher) experienced. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickesKind Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Hello, The 80mm StuG is overpowered. It would have been fair. The StuG platoon where both regulars with one green. Greetings... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 If Sturmartillerie were elite troops I do wonder why they were crewed by regular and a green crew in your game : ) It might be interesting for us all if you recreate the positions/range and use elite crews and see what difference it makes to the end result. Certainly better trained troops get accuracy increases - exactly how much I cannot recall but not a huge amount. The rate of fire I think would go up by a round or two a minute also. As for knocking out T34's at range of 1200 metres I think that would be sub-optimal but then sometimes you have to take the situation presented. If it makes you feel any better I am involved in a CMAK and my MkIV' s and the enemy Shermans are also being inaccurate at 1200 metres with very few hits. Now part of this is because BF dumbed down long range fire - I am not sure why but I am sure there are threads discussing it. Possibly because in RL tankers would not waste too many shots at unlikely ranges but gamers without re-supply concerns would. The other fudge with history is the rate of fire of all tanks is less then maximum rate so as to allow for sensible aimed fire at range. Consider that at point blank range the laying of the gun would be simpler but the ROF remains the same. But games have to a blend of these fudges to make it capable of running on a year 2000 computer. Lastly this month I had a crack Tiger miss a broadside on Sherman twice at under 300 metres and then it reversed out of sight. Snuck out later and killed me : ( 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickesKind Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 If Sturmartillerie were elite troops I do wonder why they were crewed by regular and a green crew in your game : ) Elite due to their moral (assault artillerymen volunteered), education and potent equipment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Elite due to their moral (assault artillerymen volunteered), education and potent equipment.I bet their wives were pleased. I appreciate the fine definition but with the game engine if you want superior performance from your troops you have to pay the points. If you put in conscript troops into the Sturmartillerie you would expect poorer performance as a follow on regardless of the prestige of the arm. I am not saying that elite will perform better but I suspect they will at range stated in your first post. Run the trial! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickesKind Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 I bet their wives were pleased. You bet your ass! Your remarks make sense. Nevertheless it where troops of equal quality that met. In a situation like regular StuG vs regular T34 at a range of 1200m I would expect the StuG to win. I'll run trial. Greetings... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Alte Fritz Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Can I ask -what were the T34s doing? If they were moving fast then the hit probabilty goes way down compared to if they were hunting or moving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickesKind Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 @ DAF The T34 and the StuGs where not moving. The trials confirmed what I experienced: 10 runs-> 3 StuG vs 3 T34 -> one T34 left alive, StuGs dead. Regulars on both sides. Distance 1000m. Greetings... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I have just put 5 veteran Stugs versus 5 T34 at approx 1000metres and all T34's died in the first 55 seconds for the loss of two Stugs and one immobilised. Veteran is the category but I got 3 vets, one crack, and one regular. All the Russians were regular. Note that I had a group of tanks versus a group of tanks not single fire lanes. Also note that one dead Stug did not vacate the tank dueing the minute and may have drawn fire. I re-did the test with same crews etc and all t34's were dead in 33 seconds for no loss. I re-did the test for a third time and the Russians were all dead at 44 seconds for the loss of one Stug. Then I went to regulars for both sides - apart from the Russians had one green The battle took two turns and the Stug loss was two all at the beginning and when I replayed the second turn three times the loss was a further Stug twice and a single once. So veteran troops appear much more lethal. BTw I thought I would set up a second trial but for laughs put in a strong wind - and accidentally 1320 metres. Four T34's died in the first minute - no losses to the Stugs. Replaying the second turn twice more the sole T34 managed a kill,and a gun damage before dying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickesKind Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 So wtf happened with my StuGs? :[ Just hardcore bad luck? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 There are a number of possibilities a] I am using IIIf's but I was running in 1943 - however there appear no differences in armour penetration b] The M42 is harder to knock out than an M43 - unlikely c] Your battles was not at midday in fine weather d] Your opponent had some undulations that altered the angle of strike/hulldown e] They had sen you first and got the crucial first kill I have just run a three Stug to two T34's at just over a thousand and both died within a minute for the loss of one Stug. Ran again both dead inside 30 seconds Ran a third time they lasted 55 seconds and got one hit and panicked a tank I would suspect you were unlucky.! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Or the game engine is leaning against vehicles with hull mounted guns in favour of turreted tanks. Which manifests itself also with the inability of the Stug to go hull down effectively without benefits for reduced hit probability (targeting based on crossection). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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