do we get swastikas ?

[franz]

I notice the game seems to have an emphasis on early war campaigns eg. poland. In those campaigns the swastika flag was VERY commonly draped over panzers because of the near total air dominance of the Luftwaffe.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by franz:

I notice the game seems to have an emphasis on early war campaigns eg. poland. In those campaigns the swastika flag was VERY commonly draped over panzers because of the near total air dominance of the Luftwaffe.

But they didn't have true Close Air Support, so it probably didn't really matter that much. The Luftwaffe in the Polish campaign really didn't attack tactical ground targets, and was much more of a strategic air force. Even later in the war there wasn't a whole lot of ground-air co-ordination, certainly not on the level that, say, the USMC would achieve in Korea, or even the western Allies in late 1944.

I wouldn't buy in to the whole "Blitzkrieg" fantasy concocted after the war by Allied apologists. German tanks were mainly used for infantry support in Poland in 1939 and the campaign was won by very conventional means. I'd be surprised to hear that the Luftwaffe actively engaged targets anywhere near the German tanks. Did you have an example of an instance in which the Luftwaffe was used to directly support tactical operations in 1939?

Of course, given the sometimes poor handling of German armour in Poland (the attack on the fortifications at Mlawa on 1 September, for example, of the loss of 57 tanks in Warsaw by trying to occupy the city far too early, or the panzer division of Guderian's corps that ran out of gas on the 2 September), one could see why they would be leery of friendly fire incidents.

From "Panzer" by Roger Edwards:

Close-support provided by the Luftwaffe for the armies at Bjelgorod and Bryanksk during CITADEL (ie Kursk, 1943) marked a significant development in ground-attack operations. From aircraft operating in small numbers against tanks, more or less at random during early campaigns, their employment developed to the stage where they were used en masse as a decisive weapon with which to counter superior enemy ground forces.

My understanding is that the dive bombers and other air assets were generally used against pre-determined targets in 1939, especially to augment the meagre artillery of most German divisions (horse-drawn, it may be pointed out), and usually strategic in nature, not tactical (though I get the impression enemy artillery was a common target, as were choke points such as bridges?).

Small numbers of planes operating against targets of opportunity seem to have been the normal exception to more common strategic missions. Since German armour was almost never in front of the advance in 1939, they would appear to have been relatively safe from being mistaken by friendly aircraft for the enemy.

[ October 23, 2006, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Sirocco]

I think we might be talking about two different things; the use of air recognition panels when on the march, and the actual tactical employment of armour, during which time I wouldn't expect to see them in use. It's comparable to the horse argument from CM. In essence it's out of scope.

I can see use of the swastika in terms of victory flags and other system graphics, but in the actual game itself offhand I can only visualise it in helmet decals, which doesn't come into play, either.

[Hitori Kyo]

You raise many good points Michael Dorosh, the Germans used the more traditional "Vernichtungsgedanke" stratergy, which relied more apon artillery and strategic bombing than strong use of armour, although the luftwaffe did indeed use tactical bobming it was used more against supplylines and rear areas(enemy artillery) as Mr dorosh stated.

- Hitori kyo