Tank Ace Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Flak ism Fliegeraberwehrkanonen right? Correct me if im wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I thought it was 'Flugzeug' (aircraft), not 'Flieger' (pilot). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Flieger is correct AFAICT; "flyer defence cannons" is the usual literal English translation I've seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Yes, I actually tried googling with both: there was ~200 hits for the Flieger version against ~20 hits for the Flugzeug one - including one page using both Fliegerabwehrkanonen and Flugzeugabwehrkanonen! Life is learning and then re-learning... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I've seen both. My personal experience has perhaps been biased by chance, but it seems to me that Flugzeug was the more common usage a few decades ago, but in the last few years Flieger has taken over as evidenced by what Sergei turned up. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Just to increase the fun, I claim it is actually "Flugabwehrkanone", if it is the official "Flak" term used for the barrels which is intended. "Flug" is the prefix of things flying, like "Flugzeug" ("flightcraft"). In English, you use 'air' in this role instead, 'air' and 'aircraft'. So the non-literal but perhaps most accurate translation of "Flugabwehrkanone" would be 'airdefence cannon'. "Flugzeugabwehr" ("Aircraftdefence") sounds like something on board an aircraft to protect it, like the Bordwaffen. When grouped in units, at least the Army normally called them Fla. No need for the k at unit level. But as we know the Germans used Flak as quite a general term for air defence also. In such a context I am sure "Fliegerabwehr" could well be the intended words. The term "Fliegerabwehr" was otherwise TMHK used in a tactical context. For instance, the Ia was responsible for planning the "Fliegerabwehr" of his Division. Certain patterns of March formation for units were called "Fliegerabwehr" (because they were designed primarily for defence against roving aircraft). I also imagine it was the normal spoken word, as the normal army word for aircraft was "Flieger", if not more specific ("Jäger", "Jabo" etc). "Flugabwehr" was (and is I believe) otherwise the normal collective term for ground based anti aircraft systems of all sorts. "Luftwehr" (literally 'Airdefence') was (and is I believe) used as term for the strategic defence of airspace and inclusive of friendly aircraft units as part of it. I don't think the contemporary German was very careful about using these terms correctly. Just as long as his listener understood what he meant. No source stating it was so, its just a feeling I get. Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Originally posted by Dandelion: Certain patterns of March formation for units were called "Fliegerabwehr" (because they were designed primarily for defence against roving aircraft).When I did my basic training in 1988, we still used the term "Ack Ack formation" to describe two staggered columns of infantry marching down a road. In 1939, "Ack" was the phonetic for the letter A, Ack Ack is thus the phonetic for the abbreviation AA, which at the time meant "Anti-Aircraft". In WW I, the Canadian and British armies marched in fours, in WW II they changed to threes when no in danger of attack, and when in the vicinity of enemy aircraft, used "Ack Ack" formation. The phonetic alphabet changed in 1942 or 3, and A became Able, but the term Ack Ack has lived on, I believe to this day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: ...but the term Ack Ack has lived on, I believe to this day. Interesting question for a word junky like myself. I think the contemporary term in the US forces (from at least the period of the Viet Nam war) is 'triple A', for 'Anti-aircraft Artillery'. I think 'Ack Ack' was mostly a usage in the BCE forces during WW II. The term among Americans was 'Flak'. I've always wondered if part of the adoption and persistence of the term 'Ack Ack' lay in its onomatopoetic qualities in imitation of the sound of the rapid-fire cannon that inspired it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 ack ack is the name of flak because of the sound it makes when firing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Originally posted by TANK ACE: ack ack is the name of flak because of the sound it makes when firing. I could have sworn I just posted that ACK is the phonetic for the letter A. In World War One, flak was called "Archie" by the British. ACK was the phonetic for the letter A back then, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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