Col. Gen. Guderian Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 This would be a great addition, I whined about it before. 2 big things that should be adjusted, sub warfare should be more effective. Same goes for bombing. I mean, the amount of times that the computer bombs your city and you lose about 3 MPPs, but the bomber unit might lose just 1 strength and it would cost it 20 MPP to reinforce. So basicly bombing cities and resources was completely useless in SC, could this be looked at for the second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Gen. Guderian Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 This would be a great addition, I whined about it before. 2 big things that should be adjusted, sub warfare should be more effective. Same goes for bombing. I mean, the amount of times that the computer bombs your city and you lose about 3 MPPs, but the bomber unit might lose just 1 strength and it would cost it 20 MPP to reinforce. So basicly bombing cities and resources was completely useless in SC, could this be looked at for the second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Yes...the Bombing problem...is a problem...it's clearly not fair or honest as you have shown with your figures. ev or Edwin P or someone else...may have some ideas on how to rectify that!. As far as Submarines being more effective...i don't see how that can happen!. The Allies used Radar/Sonar... and could see where the German Subs were in or on the water...the Sub's couldn't hide...and as well...the Americans were turning out large numbers of JEEP Escort Carriers. These were small carriers designed at first to protect convoys crossing the Atlantic!. http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/cv-escrt.html In the Atlantic, escort carriers originally stayed close to the convoys they were protecting. Over time, tactics evolved that enabled the Jeep carriers and their destroyer escorts to become independent "hunter-killer" groups. They could attack concentrations of U-boats at will and were no longer required to provide constant umbrella coverage for a convoy. This tactic was further refined by having the escort carrier groups concentrate their efforts in areas where U-boats met their supply submarines ("milch cows"). This operational phase was so successful that three Jeeps — USS Core (CVE 13), USS Card (CVE 11) and USS Bogue (CVE 9) — and their escorting destroyers sank a total of 16 U-boats and 8 milch cows in a period of 98 days. During this time, U-boats sank only one merchantman and shot down only three planes from the escort carriers. This loss of submarines, particularly the milch cows, was a severe blow to the German Navy. With diminished capability for refueling U-boats at sea, and with no friendly bases in the area, Admiral Karl Doenitz, commander of the German U-boat fleet, was forced to withdraw his remaining supply submarines and cancel all U-boat operations in the central Atlantic. [ June 17, 2004, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Yes...the Bombing problem...is a problem...it's clearly not fair or honest as you have shown with your figures. ev or Edwin P or someone else...may have some ideas on how to rectify that!. As far as Submarines being more effective...i don't see how that can happen!. The Allies used Radar/Sonar... and could see where the German Subs were in or on the water...the Sub's couldn't hide...and as well...the Americans were turning out large numbers of JEEP Escort Carriers. These were small carriers designed at first to protect convoys crossing the Atlantic!. http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/cv-escrt.html In the Atlantic, escort carriers originally stayed close to the convoys they were protecting. Over time, tactics evolved that enabled the Jeep carriers and their destroyer escorts to become independent "hunter-killer" groups. They could attack concentrations of U-boats at will and were no longer required to provide constant umbrella coverage for a convoy. This tactic was further refined by having the escort carrier groups concentrate their efforts in areas where U-boats met their supply submarines ("milch cows"). This operational phase was so successful that three Jeeps — USS Core (CVE 13), USS Card (CVE 11) and USS Bogue (CVE 9) — and their escorting destroyers sank a total of 16 U-boats and 8 milch cows in a period of 98 days. During this time, U-boats sank only one merchantman and shot down only three planes from the escort carriers. This loss of submarines, particularly the milch cows, was a severe blow to the German Navy. With diminished capability for refueling U-boats at sea, and with no friendly bases in the area, Admiral Karl Doenitz, commander of the German U-boat fleet, was forced to withdraw his remaining supply submarines and cancel all U-boat operations in the central Atlantic. [ June 17, 2004, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosevelt45 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 I'm doing my French oral examination about 'la bataille de l'atlantic' tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosevelt45 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 I'm doing my French oral examination about 'la bataille de l'atlantic' tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fleet Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 The battle for the Atlantic was lost for Germany after the Hunter-Killer-Groups were formed and the Enigma-machine-codes were broken. But in first two years of the war the German U-Boats were successful against British-shipping. Especially against the slow SC-convoys. The majority of the escort carriers were built later in the war and also used against the Japanese in the Pacific. I agree with Guderian that the U-Boats could play a bigger role, at least in the beginning. As for the "Milchkühe" or milk cows. This feature is too small for a game on the strategic level. But it would be possible to combine it with Naval HQs [hint..], raise the supply and readiness of the U-Boats. @roosevelt: Al the best for your examination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fleet Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 The battle for the Atlantic was lost for Germany after the Hunter-Killer-Groups were formed and the Enigma-machine-codes were broken. But in first two years of the war the German U-Boats were successful against British-shipping. Especially against the slow SC-convoys. The majority of the escort carriers were built later in the war and also used against the Japanese in the Pacific. I agree with Guderian that the U-Boats could play a bigger role, at least in the beginning. As for the "Milchkühe" or milk cows. This feature is too small for a game on the strategic level. But it would be possible to combine it with Naval HQs [hint..], raise the supply and readiness of the U-Boats. @roosevelt: Al the best for your examination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Yes DOWing the USA was the part that killed the U-Boats. That's really gave the Atlantic Merchant Marine a Buffer from the scourge of the wolfpacks. While we're at it, U-Boats operating too close to US Waters should raise USA War Readiness. Though also provide a Mucho bonus to smacking up UK MPPs since much of the UK's supplies came from the USA. U-boats early both in WW1 and WW2 really damaged the UK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Yes DOWing the USA was the part that killed the U-Boats. That's really gave the Atlantic Merchant Marine a Buffer from the scourge of the wolfpacks. While we're at it, U-Boats operating too close to US Waters should raise USA War Readiness. Though also provide a Mucho bonus to smacking up UK MPPs since much of the UK's supplies came from the USA. U-boats early both in WW1 and WW2 really damaged the UK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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