Forced Labor & Slave Labor

[Retributar]

The German's & i presume...the Russian's had a source of ' Industrial Output = MPP's that the other nation's did not really utilize...and would be a resource that only they could use!...this would save Germany & Russia the expenditure of some of their MPP point reserves!.

This additional Construction Force which is/was a 'Forced-Manpower-Pool' could be directed to build the Atlantic-Wall...Above ground & Underground Industrial Production Facilities & as well as Actual Production ( EG:V2 Rocket's , ME-262 Jet's etc. )--V1 & V2 Rocket sites---the Zig-Freid-Line---or what-ever other project's that might be in the game.

From the posting: Want to make bombers useful/important?

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000544

"...as the war progressed...the German's were forced to move more & more of their industry underground!,..provision in the Bomb-Damage %Calculation's can be adjusted to factor this element in as well...there-by helping to reduce the bomb-damage inflicted by the Bomber-Forces.

Investment MPP's could be used in conjunction with slave-labor to effect or implement UNDERGROUND-PRODUCTION-FACILITIES ...which could also increase in effectiveness with increased investment!...particularily with inmate or slave-labor investment...& not so much as far as 'MPP' investment!.

http://www.vex.com/~nizkor/hweb/camps/gusen/gudest1x.htm

Deutsche Erd- und Steinwerke GmbH (D. E. S. T.)

In 1942 and 1943 DEST also begun manufacturing fuselages for the Messerschmitt "Me-109" fighter-planes. During this period, some 20 fuselages were produced by KZ Gusen inmates every week.

Then, in late 1943, when the U.S. strategic bombings devastated some key war-production facilities of the Third Reich, DEST provided huge tunnel-systems in the vicinity of the KZ Gusen for its commercial partners.

At first, they have begun to dig the "KELLERBAU" tunnels to shelter the machine-gun production of Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG directly north of the KZ Gusen "GEORGEN-MUEHLE" (Steyr) Barracks.

Later on, a second, much bigger underground system was built in neighboring St.Georgen/Gusen (site of the Central Administration) to shelter the production of "Me-262" Messerschmitt-Airplanes in the "BERGKRISTALL-ESCHE 2" underground plant.

To manage this project, DEST established a new, second concentration camp at Gusen - the KZ Gusen II. This camp was only established "to manage" the thousands of new inmates sent to KZ Gusen to build the giant underground system at nearby St.Georgen/Gusen.

With this latest KZ Gusen II (BERGKRISTALL) Project, DEST became one of the leading sub-contractors of Messerschmitt GmbH.

So, at the end of WW2, nearly 1/3 of all the Messerschmitt aircraft-production was provided by DEST with the concentration camps at Mauthausen-Gusen and Flossenbuerg. KZ Gusen II (the Hell of Hells), was the key-installation within this plan, because it was dedicated to the final-assembly of the first serially-produced jet-propelled plane in history."

[ December 09, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[JerseyJohn]

But was that pool of slave laborers really an advantage?

It's a fact that many of the V2 rockets and other weapons made by that labor force were sabotaged. Wouldn't both Germany and the USSR have been much better off if they'd utilized their populations in a sane manner instead of reverting to slavery, which was proven to be a poor system as far back as Ancient times?

Aside from the massive discontent it endendered, there was the also the matter of needing to guard the work force and to recieve in return shoddy production while needing to constantly replace those who had learned their tasks with those who were new to them and totally unskilled.

What's the point of wasting a chemist or watchmaker or skilled machinist as a manual laborer, especially in harsh conditions where most of the those employed are being worked to death. Where's the efficiency in doing things like that?

If anything slave labor ought to have an inherently penalized (sorry, no pun intended) factor that nations with free workers are don't have.

[Retributar]

True enough JerseyJohn ... i agree with you...so then...but why then did they continue to use slave-labor until the end of the war?.

Even though it is as you say and i agree with...they still must have concluded that they were ahead in the game by continuing on with this process!...i don't really know the answer to this question!.

[Shaka of Carthage]

Because the slave laborers were considered less than human and not worth the cost of a bullet to kill. Hence, by working them to death, you got some benefit from them before they died.

[JerseyJohn]

Shaka

I agree, that was a big part of it.

Retributer

To answer your question I think it's necessary to get into the mindset of those who ran things for the Nazis and Soviets. They believed in the system they were using, changing things was not an option. In their view it was getting the job done -- I doubt they considered whether or not it could have been better done using other methods.

Secondly, as the war was in progress, they didn't have the chance to change methods even if they'd wanted to -- and there's no indication that they did.

Once they instituted the policy of regarding tens of millions of people as sub-human and fit only for exploitation and extermination, they had no way of getting out of it. They were stuck with their own ruinious policies.

But the original issue was in evaluating productivity and I think the slave states of both Germany and Russia would need to be penalized for those backwards policies.

-- This can always be changed in the Scenario editor, of course, by not penalizing them!

-- -- In SC this can be done with Germany by giving it Industrial Tech Level 2 and possibly not having Soviet Partisans, simulating a society that did not rush some of it's citizens in to ghettos because they were Jewish. Where that segment continued to function within the society and where conquered neighbors were not seen as vassal states that were pupulated by vermin!