Options for East politics

[CobraEuro]

Will there be options for different German politics in the conquered east that have influence to the partisan activity?

For example:

- Independence for White Russia, Balticum and or Ukrainia.

or

- cruel exploitation ect. ...

greetz cobra

[Retributar]

Yes...would you like to have a shower now???.

----

Added:---EASTERN POLITICS:

Yes, a shower is/was/would be offered upon relocation to your new home,...but then the Gas-Chamber is used instead.

Over 6,000,000 Jew's and 2-4,000,000 other's were gassed...then reduced to ashes in the crematoriums.

You don't think that after they took care of the Jew's, that this process/practice would stop there and then.

Whole areas would need to be depopulated to provide 'Living-Room' for Germany's citizens.

[ November 26, 2004, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[CobraEuro]

shower ???????

Aeh... I think of s.th. like in the stony road mod in "Hearts of Iron". There you have options for the german east politics that have an influence on the game. Partisan activity ect. For example you can be nice and you have a low partisan activity and russia collapsed earlier because many people believe you will free them from communism or you can be cruel and you have high partisan activity and a higher russian moral so that russia collapsed later.

And for example if you win there will be a independent Ukrainia, White Russia ect. and a "neutral" National Russia as a replacement for communist Russia. Or there will be general governments for East, Caucasus, Ukraine ect. and all will belong to the German territory but there will be Partisan activity even after Russia collapsed.

[Edwin P.]

Good idea, but there should be costs and benefits associated with each option.

Option 1: Ukrainian Independence

Benefit: No Partisans appear in the Ukraine, Ukraine appears as an independent nation after all of its cities have been liberated.

Cost: Production from conquered Ukrainian cities is halved. Ukraine may declare neutrality when Allied unit is adjacent to Paris or Rome. Ukrainian units can not leave the Ukraine.

[ November 26, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[CobraEuro]

@ Retributar:

Thanks... I really don't need a lesson in German history!!

Of course I don't think that the game should simulate the holocaust! Stupid question!!

In fact the Nazis had different plans for the east.

They had a plan to conquer Russia and use it for German settlement in the next 20 years after the war. This plan was from the SS.

Then they had other plans to free the national Non-Russians and make them to their allies with giving them a limited independence. This plan was from the german foreign ministry (Ribbentrop Plan).

We all know that Hitler favored the first option.

I would like it to see a option for the axis player to choose one of this politics at the beginning of Barbarossa because it would have an influence on the strategy. And of course not because I'm a fan of Nazi politics.

But thx for giving me this "You are German so perhaps you are a Nazi" indication! - I'm not!

@ Edwin P.:

Yes! Cost and Benefits! That's my idea!

Option 1: Ukrainian (* and other: White Russia, Baltics, Caucasus Republics) Independence

Benefit:

No Partisans appear in the Ukraine *, Ukraine* appears as an independent axis nation after all of its cities have been liberated.

Cost:

Production from conquered Ukrainian* cities is halved. Ukraine* may declare neutrality when Allied unit is adjacent to Paris or Rome.

and (for example)

Option 2:

Support National Russia and General Wlassow

Benefit:

Russia collapsed earlier. Some new (russian) units that fight for the Axis. No Partisans in Russia. Russian part around Moscwa and the neighbour cities appears as an independent axis nation after all of its cities have been liberated.

Cost:

Production from National Russian Cities is halved. Russia may declare neutrality when Allied unit is adjacent to Paris or Rome.

or

Option 3:

Make the East German!

Benefits:

After victory over Sowjetunion the West of Russia will be annected by Germany. New border Leningrad-Odessa. East of Russia will be under German controll but only as an occupied zone.

All cities in West of Russia and all occupied cities in the east will have full production.

The War in western Europe will have no influence on the regions of ex SU.

Costs:

SU will collapse much later.

After collapse:

(very) high Partisan activity in the east of Russia and low in the "German" west-Russia.

Each city in the east of (non-german) Russia that has no German unit in it will have halved production.

In all areas of ex-SU some German units will be destroyed or strongly damaged by 2-3 random events a year because of terrorist activities.

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By the way, this would be also possible for Yugoslawia after a victory. Perhaps you can give Croatia independence or not.

Benefits:

You get some Croatian Units. Croatia becomes independent state in north of Yugoslawia.

Costs:

Higher partisan activity in (Serbian) south Yugoslawia. Production in Belgrad is halved. Terrorist attacks on Axis units in south Yugoslawia. After Belgrad is conquered by Allies Croatia collapsed and Allied player gets some Serbian units.

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I think that would be some though decission that the Axis player has to make. And they could really influence the game!

greetz cobra

[Edwin P.]

I like your three options but would refine them to ensure play balance.

For example:

Option 2: Support National Russia and General Wlassow

This option allows the Germans to end the war in the East early at the cost of greatly reduced production contributions from the former Soviet Union.

Benefit: Russia surrenders when 2 of its 3 national capital cities surrenders as opposed to 3 of 3.

Cost: Western Russia, east of the Marshes, becomes a neutral nation: the Russian Empire. The Axis does not gain any plunder when Russia surrenders. Partisan activity continues in occupied russia.

Allied use of Diplomatic Chits may cause the Russian Empire to join the Allies.

Option 3. Make the East German

The German government moves to resettle Germans in Western Russia. This greaty angers the Russia people who begin a campaign of sabotage against the occupiers.

Benefit: Each occupied city in Western Russia will have full production capacity. (ie max of 10 instead of 8). This reflects the movement of German settlers into these areas.

Cost: Each unoccupied German controlled city or resource hex (in Eastern Russia) has no production. Each occupied city or resource hex has its production halved. This reflects increased resistance to German occupation.

The chance for post surrender russian partisans increase from 15% per turn to 50% per turn in occupied Eastern Russia.

[pzgndr]

No Partisans appear in the Ukraine*, Ukraine* appears as an independent axis nation

This would be a neat variant. Unfortunately, there are no more slots available for adding new nations to the game. SC2 is limited to 6 majors and 22 minors. That's just the way it is. If you want to add Ukraine, you'd have to take something else away.

However, it's possible we could do something else. There is the new territory event script. An example is eastern Poland becoming Russian after Poland surrenders. This could be reversed to make the whole territory Poland again once Germany takes control. This would not affect any production or anything, but would more or less prevent Partisans from appearing in Poland.

Going a step further, it should be possible to temporarily transform Ukraine and Belorussia into "Polish" territory with separate events. Not automatically, but with some small chance of "liberating" these territories and reducing the Partisan risk. I don't see a way to make this a player choice with a cost; they would have to be random events introduced into the game. Probably a good idea for a mod. Maybe also for the default scenarios. :cool:

[CobraEuro]

Yeah, sounds great!

Of course it has to be tested. But I would really like it if things like that like that could be included!

[CobraEuro]

@ pzgndr:

But when this situation will come Germany should have conquered some nations (Netherlands, Poland ect.). So there should be some free slots at this moment. But I don't know details. It was just an idea.

Is there really no chance to add some slots?

[Edwin P.]

For Axis player choice - could you invest Diplomatic Chits in a Surrendered Poland and if it reached that magic number then as you stated Ukraine would be transformed into Polish territory? The Axis would have to expend a diplomatic chit or two to make this option occur.

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It would be interesting if each major nation had a national policy screen where the player could select, for a cost the policies that thay choose to follow. Each policy would have an effect on the game.

For example:

Axis Russian Policy

Option 1: Conquer Russia

Option 2: End Communism in Russia (aka Vichy Russia)

Option 3: Ukrainian Independence

American Policy

Option 1: Accept Japanese Expansion (= No Siberian Transfer for Russia, Greater US Production)

Option 2: Resist Japanese Expansion (= Siberian Transfer for Russia, and Reduced US Production)

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Regarding Major and Minor Nation Slots. I know its fixed but would really like to see 1 more major nation slot (for Japan or Turkey) and perhaps 3 more minor nations slots (for Egypt, Morroco and the Ukraine (or San Marino or Andorra))

[ November 26, 2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[pzgndr]

Is there really no chance to add some slots? ... I know its fixed but would really like to see 1 more major nation slot and perhaps 3 more minor nations slots

I feel your pain. This was one of Hubert's design decisions and he has his reasons, so it's not likely to change at this point. That why I suggest alternatives within the bounds.

EuroCobra, the countries remain in play even if conquered. Thus they can be liberated later. It's possible that a later scenario mod could combine countries, like Poland becoming part of Germany and Baltic States becoming part of USSR, thus freeing a couple of slots to work with. That would work.

Edwin, as far as I know Diplomacy will have no effect on activated or surrendered countries. So I'd say we're back to thinking about random events as possible game variants. Which isn't so bad. There's a LOT of potential with these event scripts.

[Retributar]

All good idea's...what else can i say?. Keep ' Think-Tanking'... and hopefully these ideas and others can be included in the game.

I think it is absolutely necessary to have as many additions-options to increase the depth - play-ability - interest & longevity of SC2!.

[CobraEuro]

@ Retributar:

Perhaps I have misinterpreted your first post... if so - Sorry!

@ pzgndr:

I have thought about this slots... if there should be the possibility to create world scenarios how would that work with only 22 nations?

[pzgndr]

I started a new topic for Global Scenario ideas. Let's leave this one for East Politics, Partisans, etc.

[lonewulf]

I would love to have these abilities in the game. The game is to put you in position to control Germany's forces and if thus I should have this option. Creating these satellites should be available. After some time, these countries should also provide troops for you. Even with the horrible treatment of most of Western Russia in WW2 there were still thousands who fought with the Germans against the soviets.

[Edwin P.]

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It would be interesting if each major nation had a national policy screen where they could select at the start of the game at the cost of a diplomatic chit a non-standard governmental policy to follow at the start of the war. Each policy would have a "balanced" effect on the game and provide more player controlled variants to the game.

For example:

German Policy Options

Option 1: Vichy Russia - No Russian Partisans, German production from Russian cities is halved.

Option 2: Encourage Japan to Attack USSR - No Siberian Transfer, Greater US Production

Option 3: Court Franco - Italy Remains Neutral, Spain Joins Axis

Option 4: Court Turkey - Italy Remains Neutal, Turkey Joins Axis

Italy

In a MP game Italy may not want to play as Spain or Turkey so I added these options:

Option 1: Warn Germany about Negotiating with Spain - Negates German Option 3

Option 2: Warn Germany about Neogtiating with Turkey - Negates German Option 4

UK Policy Options

Option 1: Abandon the Far East - Naval Reinforcements from the Far East, No Merchant Ship convoy routes from the Far East - ie MPP production reduced by XX per turn and Axis Units may transit the Horn of Africa.

Option 2: Warn Japan Not to Attack Russia - Negates German Option 2.

Option 3: Prepare for Post Surrender Partisan Warfare - Post surrender UK partisans activated at Cost of disbanding 2 units.

Option 4: Support Franco - Negates German Option 3

Option 5: Warn Turkey - Negates German Option 4

American Policy Options

Option 1: Accept Japanese Expansion - No Siberian Transfer for Russia, Greater US Production.

Option 2: Resist Japanese Expansion - Early Siberian Transfer for Russia, and Reduced US Production until Japan is defeated at a Random Date.

Option 3: Warn Japan Not to Attack Russia - Negates German Option 2.

Russia

Option 1: Send Reinforcements to Siberia - Negates German Option 2, 2 Units sent to Siberia, Return when Siberian Transfer occurs.

Option 2: Prepare for Post Partisan Warfare - Chance for Partisans Doubles, Post Surrender Partisans Activated, but cost is 1000MPP to Russia. I if Germany selected Option 1 and Russia selected Option 2 then the effects of both are canceled.

Option 3: Warn Turkey - Negates German Option 4

Example: At start of Game German Player Selects Option 4 (Court Turkey) in an effort to bring Turkey into the Axis alliance instead of Italy. The UK player chooses not to select a policy option. The Russian Player selects the Warn Turkey Option to negate German efforts to bring Turkey into the Axis Alliance.

[ February 21, 2005, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]