mission "danube blues"

[anton]

HI,all

I'm playing the german part, the 10 or 11s round

the german reinforce arrived pest(or buda,I don'tnow).First contact to a russian tank-platoon(maybe T-34s).my two tiger and one stugg III are standing still and open the fire to the slowly moving russian amor in a distance about 400 meters.after two rounds are destroyed three russian tanks and my two tigers.I've saved the game before playing this two rounds, so I was able to repeat the starting position and try once more(several times).

there was always the same result.that means IMHO, the result of this fight can't be only bad luck for the germans.

my tigers are standing and shot first, but they didn't hit there target in a range from about 400 meters.the moving russian tanks hits my tigers at there first strike.(I think, that can't be.)

all advantages(more and better amor,better guns,better optical measurement,targeting while standing)are only on the side of the german tanks.

I've already read some posting where vindicated the excellent AI of this game.Often from the same writers.they never concede, it's my impression,that the AI make mistakes,is in some results unrealistic etc.

the bad results of the players are everytime the results of bad playing.the player make important mistakes in reference to tatical and strategic acting.

ONCE MORE,Ican't believe in this case,that the results have been everything to do with any realistic and correct battle simulation.

I'M glad to get some impressions about the quality of the AI and exspecially some experiences in fact of this mission.

P.S. I'm so annoyed about the result of gaming,that I post a new thread at o.50 a.m.

instead of fall into sleep.

however,I hope you will apologize my english,I'm still in exercise.

greetings from berlin

anton

[Gpig]

Howdy!

First of all, I should tell you to type "spoiler" in the heading of your post. This way, people who have not played Danube Blues will not read this post.

SPOILER WARNING!!!!

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I AM playing this scenario as well, but as the Russians.

That is indeed unlucky. Having a Tiger in ambush position miss and then lose to the Russian tanks is always a serious emotional blow!

Missing the first shot from a still position only to be hit by moving tanks on thier first shot is really a big bummer. Though I think you DID state that you took out 3 of the enemy tanks. That is some good shooting.

But, just so you know. Those Russian tanks could very well be the feared T-34/85. And at 400m they are quite able to take out a Tiger tank. Unfortunatly, the Tiger is better suited to long range engagements than the city of Budapest.

I guess my only piece of advice would be to "keyhole" your Tigers. Place them in spots with minimal exposure so that only 1 russian tank at a time can engage them. Of course, you'd want to do that with ANY tank, and not just your Tigers.

Playing this battle has been great fun. Those russian tanks can be quite good! They are fast and nimble. They have pretty good armor and a great gun! Also, the turret turning rate is pretty fast. In short, they are GREAT for fighting in urban areas.

Better luck next time?

Gpig

[ October 30, 2002, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Gpig ]

[jwxspoon]

Hehe, hang in there. Under testing, the Stugs were the ones that really saved the day in this one. Wins were about even, and the few victories were mostly minors or tacticals.

jw

[Gpig]

Wow! I just finished this one up against the A.I. (with me playing as the russians).

I won a victory 100 to 0!

The Tiger tanks and stugs (when handled by the A.I.) are far inferior to the T-34/85 in a city fight. At least that's what I found during this scenario.

These were the advantages that I found to be so important in my win over the Tigers and Stugs;

T-34/85: Great Gun (able to penetrate the Tiger from any angle under 300m). Fast Turret. Fast tank. Quick turning. Short range engagements in Budapest.

And the disadvantages for the Tigers.

Tiger: Slow turn rate. SLOW turret. (This was the ultimate death knell during this battle.) OUTNUMBERED. (This was also important as I usually had 4 to 1 odds in every shootout!)

Of all the Stugs I faced, not 1 of them got off a shot. I managed to spot them with my infantry and then flank them with my tanks. They all fell to flank shots.

I can imagine this being a very tough fight for the axis forces unless they devise tactics that neutralize the weaknesses of thier armor and maximize the strengths.

Fun stuff!!!

Gpig

[jwxspoon]

Just for fun and because I had some extra time, I replayed this one today as Axis against the AI. Finished out with a minor victory, 2 T34's left alive and one Stug of mine, but the flags in my (axis possession).

jw

[Thin Red Line]

SPOILER

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Originally posted by anton:

My tigers are standing and shot first, but they didn't hit there target in a range from about 400 meters.the moving russian tanks hits my tigers at there first strike.(I think, that can't be.)

all advantages(more and better amor,better guns,better optical measurement,targeting while standing)are only on the side of the german tanks.

Anton,

I'm finishing this game in PBEM we have observed exactly the same phenomenom.

The Tigers always miss their first shoot when the Russian hit very often with theirs.

In our case the range was around 200m.

It repeated 3 or 4 for times during the game.

See this thread, the original poster is talking about Danube Blues and is my opponent in the game.

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=003132;p=

Very strange !

Good scenario BTW.

[ November 14, 2002, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by jwxspoon:

Hehe, hang in there. Under testing, the Stugs were the ones that really saved the day in this one. Wins were about even, and the few victories were mostly minors or tacticals.

jw

I'd have to say this is the most enjoyable scenario I've discovered in double-blind PBEM CMBB thus far. I like the way both sides ended up having their turn in the barrel both attacking and defending. I was the Russian, and certainly found the StuG's more troublesome than the Tigers. I believe I had 6 or 7 T-34's left at the end of the scenario, and solid possession of the VP flags. (I think the point ratio was about 75-25).

I meant to send positive feedback on the scenario, but forgot until seeing this thread jogged my memory. Jim

[jwxspoon]

Thanks Anton,

I have gotten a lot of feedback on this one. Part of what I have seen is a bunch of messages saying "There is no way for the ___ side to win!"

Insert German or Russian in the blank above. What that tells me is that good tactics and luck will be the deciding factor. I have played this scenario 5 or 6 times and it has never been a blowout for either side, which bears out the results of our playtesting.

jw

[ November 17, 2002, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: jwxspoon ]

[Gpig]

Hey there jwxspoon!

I'm the fella who played your scenario as the russians (against the A.I.) and recorded a 100 to 0 victory.

If you'll remember, I was quite pleased with myself only to discover you had intended it to be played from the Axis side (if playing single player).

I still LOVED the scenario! (A testement to your scenario building skills.)

But I did want to encourage you to specify in your future creations just what side should be commanded by the human when playing the A.I..

When going back to restart this battle as the Axis, I noticed that there was no indication as to which side to take. Only a historical outcome describing a slaughter of Russian tank forces by superior German forces. (That's what led me to believe that playing the Russians would be more of a challenge.)

Anyway, I'm loving it again. This time as the Axis! Heh heh.

Gpig

P.S. Could you let me know what other scenarios/operations you have on the CD (or other places).

Thanks

[NewSocialistMan]

I got the 100 to 0 result as well and wish you hadn't told me it was designed for a German single player.

I just loaded up the T-34's with infantry and fast moved them along the roads until I got to ambush positions near the hotel and around the long road near the city edge. The natives will shoot at you, but can't hit phallus and get wiped out pretty quickly.

Once the tanks are in ambush positions around the buildings near the cemetary, it just turns into an ugly shooting gallery.

The irony is that I got hit a couple times with 88 round and they just got "shell broke up" results.

[ November 20, 2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: NewSocialistMan ]

[jwxspoon]

hehe, glad you guys have enjoyed it. You are absolutely right about the play recommendations - every future scenario of mine will have it listed in the main briefing.

Also on the cd I did the scenario "Hornet's Nest" which is designed for 2 player or Germans against the AI. It is a very difficult scenario requiring the use of the shoot n scoot command to succeed in any way.

As a member of the Boots & Tracks team I have designed several scenarios that are available at the Boots & Tracks website. See sig below. As well, I have two scenarios in the Stalingrad Pack but they were designed on the 1.01 patch and will not be released until the patch hits the general public.

jw

[Gpig]

Thanks JW!

I will check out your other efforts ASAP!

Gpig