Grog question about 'zooks and 'shrecks

[THumpre]

Thanks in advance...

I was wondering about the number of man-portable AT weapons, 'zooks and 'shrecks, that were used in the ETO. How common were these weapons? I have noticed that they often appear in the setups(mine included) of the multiplayer games I play. I can figure out the paper number per Coy or Bat. but i wondered if anyone had any idea about the actual numbers used.

[SGT_Gold]

The actual number isn't as easy to come up with as realizing that almost every company of infantry had a heavy weapons platoon. The US ratio was one 'zook per platoon of infantry, the German slightly higher due to the 'disposable' nature of the 'faust.

[MichaelM]

Hi

Panzerfaust,(German: "Tank Fist"), The first model, the Panzerfaust 30, was developed in 1943 for use by infantry against Soviet tanks. This very simple weapon consisted of a steel tube containing a propellant charge of gunpowder. The grenade, which consisted of a small bomb attached to a wooden stem and fins, was inserted into the front end of the tube. When a firing pin on the outside of the tube was tripped, it set off a percussion cap that ignited the propellant charge. This in turn propelled the grenade a short distance to the target, where it exploded. The hollow-charge head of the grenade contained enough high explosive to penetrate even the thickest tank armour (up to 200 millimetres). The exhaust from the propellant charge exited the rear end of the tube, making the Panzerfaust a recoilless weapon.

The Panzerfaust 30 was a one-shot, disposable weapon. Its range was only 100 feet (30 metres), but a determined operator could nevertheless destroy a tank with it. The next two models of the weapon employed during World War II were given larger propellant charges in order to drive grenades to distances of up to 200 and 350 feet (60 and 100 metres), respectively. The Panzerfaust 100, which entered service in November 1944, weighed 11 pounds (5 kilograms), was 41 inches (105 centimetres) long and approximately 2 inches in diameter, and launched a grenade containing 3.5 pounds of high explosive. A fourth model, ready by early 1945, could fire 10 grenades in succession before exhausting its propellant.

Besides the Soviet Red Army in the east, the Panzerfaust was also used against American and British tanks on the Western front. The weapon was extremely easy to load, aim, and fire, and so it was widely distributed to untrained conscripts and the Volkssturm (local defense militias) in the closing phases of the war. Captured models contributed to the design of the Soviet RPG series of rocket-propelled antitank grenades, and during the Cold War the West German army, facing Soviet tanks of increasing size and power, issued its own series of rocket-propelled Panzerfaust launchers. The Panzerfaust 3, designed in the 1980s, features a pistol grip and telescopic sight and enough propellant to be fired effectively at up to 1,200 feet. Its grenade can penetrate 700 millimetres of armour.

Panzerschreck

(German: "Tank Terror"), shoulder-type rocket launcher used as an antitank weapon by the German army in World War II. The Panzerschreck consisted of a lightweight steel tube about 5 feet (150 centimetres) long that weighed about 20 pounds (9 kilograms). The tube was open at both ends and was fitted with a hand grip, trigger mechanism, and sights. The tube launched a 7.25-pound rocket-propelled grenade that had a diameter of 3.5 inches (88 millimetres). After loading the rocket in the tube and aiming the weapon at the target, the operator successively pulled two firing triggers, the first to cock the tube's magnetic ignition system and the second to release it, thereby generating a small electrical current that ignited the rocket's motor. The operator was protected from the rocket's backblast by holding the tube on his shoulder with about half the tube protruding behind him. The rocket's low speed in flight meant that the Panzershreck's maximum effective range was about 500 feet (150 metres). The rocket carried a powerful hollow-charge explosive that could penetrate 8.25 inches of armour, thicker than that of any Allied tank.

The Panzerschreck was first used by the Germans in 1943. The United States claimed that the Germans had copied its design from the U.S. Army's bazooka, which was supplied to the Soviet Red Army in 1942 and had fallen into German hands. In any case, the bazooka certainly stimulated the Germans in their own efforts to design a similar weapon. The Panzerschreck was widely issued to German infantry units and was one of their two main handheld antitank weapons, the other being the Panzerfaust.

http://search2.eb.com/normandy/articles/Panzerfaust.html

http://search2.eb.com/normandy/articles/Panzerschreck.html

Regards

Michael

[lcm1947]

Very interesting stuff , thanks MichaelM. I had no idea that any weapon of this sort could actually shoot out to a 1200 ft. even the 1980 period. I bet it wasn't too accurate at that range but still just knowing that it could shoot to that range would bother a tanker. Any idea if any of these type weapons be it German or Allied's were ever used a lot against troops? I had always thought that they were of course used for vehicles but I guess would be effective against troops but not for sure if they really were ever used in that role to any great degree in WWII.

[MichaelM]

Hi

As I recall during the later stages of the war, the were a great many of these things left behind by the germans that our troops on the front line started using them.

They were used against any and all targets that needed the extra range and firepower that the standard handgrenade lacked.

Tanks, bunkers, buildings you name it, it got a Panzerfaust fired at it.

Michael

[lcm1947]

Thanks again for the info Michael. Yeah, I was kind of wondering why they wouldn't have been used against troops but just didn't know for sure.

[THumpre]

Thanks very much for the info Michael, very interesting. I originally asked the question because it occurred to me that I tend to get man-portable AT weapons to counter tanks more often than I get other AFVs or ATGs. I have far more success with them than with tanks or guns. Just wanted to make sure that I wasn't a gamey bastich....

[Maj. Battaglia]

THumpre:

According to George Forty's "US Army Handbook 1939-1945" there were close to 500,000 bazookas produced by the US. According to the TO&E he reprints, there were over 550 per division. Almost every small combat subunit in the division (with the possible exception of the Hv Wp Cos) had at least one.

I do think that bazookas were more common in the US Army than CM suggests. Perhaps BTS found evidence to the contrary, or perhaps for balance they reduced the number found in a company (and I would defer to them). Maybe they broke down easily, they often got discarded, or there was an ammo shortage (replenishing shells was not a priority); I don't know. However, the TO&E sources I have found for infantry divisions (in addition to Forty) show nine per company and 35 for the battalion (8 in the Bn HQ). So when I play a QB or design a scenario I typically give the US more bazookas.

Forty lists the max range as 640m. That had to have been at an angle. In any case, one personal account I read ( Bazooka Man ) says that the bazooka had a primitive sight and was rarely fired at over 100 yards. This makes sense: if you are likely to miss at above that range, it could be suicide to try. So the 200m range CM uses seems realistic.

The panzerschreck (as opposed to the faust) was issued to special AT companies attached at the regimental level. I don't know the doctrine of assigning sections out to infantry units. It certainly seems that they were rarer than the bazooka. The number of panzerschreck platoons (and hence weapons) per AT company varied by regiment type. According to the War Dept.'s "Handbook on German Military Forces," here are some examples:

1944 Inf Regt: 2 plt, 36 panzerschrecks

VG Regt: 3 plt, 72 (of which 18 in reserve)

Fallschirmjäger Regt: 3 plt, 54 (attached at Bn level)

Mountain Regt: 2 plt, 36

Panzergrenadier: 0 (they got 75mm AT and SP assets)

In a number of personal accounts, vets refer to German bazookas being present. I don't know, though, whether they use that term interchangeably for schreck and faust.

I hope that puts things in better perspective.

[THumpre]

Maj. Battaglia,

Thanks for the info. That is exactly what I wanted to know. I almost always try to buy a few extra for my troops and that doesn't seem to ahistorical