Artillery delay - why only for fireplans?

[Scipio]

Why can I order a delay for artillery fire only for fireplans. It would be a good feature during the battle, on condition that this unit has already started to fire.

[Cameroon]

Probably because it seems relatively trivial to "add" the delay yourself by just waiting longer to plot the barrage?

I can't give you a realism or grog answer though.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Cameroon:

Probably because it seems relatively trivial to "add" the delay yourself by just waiting longer to plot the barrage?

I can't give you a realism or grog answer though.

You have missed the point.

a) I order an artillery strike. Delay ~5 minutes.

The first shells are falling. I guess they come down to the right place, but for whatever reason, I want to pause the fire. I order a delay of 3 minutes.

c) After three minutes, the shells start to rain´without further delay. This is realistic, because the guns are still on target.

This would be a good and simple and, as I think, realistic way to simulate the production of TRPs even in a running game.

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

I think that's a good idea. I'm no artillery expert, but it sounds realistic to me. Just in one of my battles I had this situation - there was a place on the map, I had bet my ass that the enemy will show up there. Well, and indeed he did. But if now want to fire my artillery, I have a delay of 4-5 minutes. If I would be able to set my artillery in the first minutes on a target, I can call the strike when I need it. Isn't that the common practice?

[Andreas]

TRPs.

[WWB]

One thing that must be kept in mind is that while there are all sort of realistic abilities one could give arty, it must be balanced with the Borg spotting and universal eye of the player.

Making spotters too flexible might well make arty way too dominant in this game.

WWB

[Trey Marshall]

I think what you are referring to are batteries laying on priority targets or FPFs (Final Protective Fires). Yes, it was and is common but only for the main effort forces.

Trey

Originally posted by Puff the Magic Dragon:

I think that's a good idea. I'm no artillery expert, but it sounds realistic to me. Just in one of my battles I had this situation - there was a place on the map, I had bet my ass that the enemy will show up there. Well, and indeed he did. But if now want to fire my artillery, I have a delay of 4-5 minutes. If I would be able to set my artillery in the first minutes on a target, I can call the strike when I need it. Isn't that the common practice?

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Andreas:

TRPs.

In meeting battles not available.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by wwb_99:

One thing that must be kept in mind is that while there are all sort of realistic abilities one could give arty, it must be balanced with the Borg spotting and universal eye of the player.

Making spotters too flexible might well make arty way too dominant in this game.

WWB

Okay, but why make them less flexible? The argument with borg spotting is not unjustified, but it can be simply avoided to make the spotter 'gamey'. He can order delays or pauses - maybe he can even order each turn to hold fire til the next turn. But this works only as long as he don't move, so the Spotter must stay all the time on the same place with LOS to his target zone. Well, that would be at least a compromise between realism and playability.

[WWB]

Originally posted by Scipio:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wwb_99:

One thing that must be kept in mind is that while there are all sort of realistic abilities one could give arty, it must be balanced with the Borg spotting and universal eye of the player.

Making spotters too flexible might well make arty way too dominant in this game.

WWB

Okay, but why make them less flexible? The argument with borg spotting is not unjustified, but it can be simply avoided to make the spotter 'gamey'. He can order delays or pauses - maybe he can even order each turn to hold fire til the next turn. But this works only as long as he don't move, so the Spotter must stay all the time on the same place with LOS to his target zone. Well, that would be at least a compromise between realism and playability.</font>

[Scipio]

Originally posted by wwb_99:

So, what happens, a player spots a likely patch of woods on turn 2 and then keeps delaying because the enemy is not there yet. Seems pretty gamey to me. ...

Why?

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

Originally posted by wwb_99:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scipio:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wwb_99:

One thing that must be kept in mind is that while there are all sort of realistic abilities one could give arty, it must be balanced with the Borg spotting and universal eye of the player.

Making spotters too flexible might well make arty way too dominant in this game.

WWB

Okay, but why make them less flexible? The argument with borg spotting is not unjustified, but it can be simply avoided to make the spotter 'gamey'. He can order delays or pauses - maybe he can even order each turn to hold fire til the next turn. But this works only as long as he don't move, so the Spotter must stay all the time on the same place with LOS to his target zone. Well, that would be at least a compromise between realism and playability.</font>

[SaTyR]

Just a thought: if your playing games with small/medium size forces and have arty assets like 105mm and above, they are prabably not supporting only you, but the whole division/regiment/whatever. So to me the "waiting game" would sound a bit odd and unrealistic. You would have a battery of 150mm artillery supporting only your company's and tank platoon's advance. And that just doesn't sound right. I like the idea of smaller arty pieces, supporting a smallish force's battle as dedicated arty, to have their barrels pointed to a certain place and only waiting for the command to FIRE. The bigger ones would probably be needed somewhere else. But it would be quite hard to code something like this into the game (ie. how big are your forces and are the artillery assets dedicated or not depending on that). Now i'm no grog and this was just a thought, I'm really not familiar with WW2 forces and their dedicated artillery size/calibre/sumfink.

Cheers

[Scipio]

Originally posted by SaTyR:

Just a thought: if your playing games with small/medium size forces and have arty assets like 105mm and above, they are prabably not supporting only you, but the whole division/regiment/whatever. So to me the "waiting game" would sound a bit odd and unrealistic. You would have a battery of 150mm artillery supporting only your company's and tank platoon's advance. And that just doesn't sound right. I like the idea of smaller arty pieces, supporting a smallish force's battle as dedicated arty, to have their barrels pointed to a certain place and only waiting for the command to FIRE. The bigger ones would probably be needed somewhere else. But it would be quite hard to code something like this into the game (ie. how big are your forces and are the artillery assets dedicated or not depending on that). Now i'm no grog and this was just a thought, I'm really not familiar with WW2 forces and their dedicated artillery size/calibre/sumfink.

Cheers

Good argument, but in princip are all the necessary datas already in the game. Each Spotter is assigned to battalion, regiment and above in the purchase menu. I would think artillery on Battalions level can work that flexible as I suggested, everything else not. This would also limit the available calibers to 81mm and 120mm mortars & 75mm artillery.