Creating Scenario/Battle maps

[Faust]

It's probably a simple thing I'm missing but when creating a muti battle scenario, I gather you create/save the principal scenario map first? On completion, click on "battle" within the .cmc file and the saved scenario map should come up to plann battle #!?

But it doesn't! I get a raw map; the same one which would open if designing a single battle only?

How does one access a scenario map for planning the numerous battles?

[Faust]

It's probably a simple thing I'm missing but when creating a muti battle scenario, I gather you create/save the principal scenario map first? On completion, click on "battle" within the .cmc file and the saved scenario map should come up to plann battle #!?

But it doesn't! I get a raw map; the same one which would open if designing a single battle

only? How does one access a scenario map for planning the numerous battles?

SORRY, I'M REFEREING TO CREATING AN 'OPERATION " MAP. (NOT SCENARIO), FOR USE WITH NUMEROUS BATTLES

[Guest Rob/1]

Change cmb with cmc that dose it.

Rob

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Check out my CM web page Combat1!

members.home.net/rwdisney/Combat1/Combat1.html

[Faust]

ROB

"Change cmb with cmc that dose it."

Sorry, not with you Rob. Original Operation map already in .cmc.

[Oddball_E8]

It might be that im not reading you right here, but you want to know how to place units and stuff like that?

you do it just like any other scenario...

and units that are supposed to be in any battle after the first will have to be set as reinforcements

and you will have to create a large map if you want the battle to move over the map... you can set how much of the map will be visible for every battle... from between 1.2k to 2k, then only that much of the map will be seen.

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Wof, wof, wof, wof... Thats my other dog imitation.

[This message has been edited by Oddball_E8 (edited 10-04-2000).]

[Pak40]

Faust,

First, I recommend you read the manual. It tells you how to make an operation and it's fairly simple to understand.

Second, I think your conception of the the operation making process is not correct. You do not make each individual battle. The second battle starts where the first battle left off (with some shifting of the front lines).

Here's a basic run down of the steps to create an operation:

1. click start new operation

2. make map

3. make OOB(select units including reinforcements)

4. set operation parameters (battle lengths, # of battles, visable map size, attacking side, etc., etc.)

5. Place units of battle #1 on map using the 3D preview.

6. save and play.

[This message has been edited by Pak40 (edited 10-04-2000).]

[Faust]

PAK 40

I did actually read the manual. You recommendations are fine, certainly more concise than any thing in my manual which, I feel, is rather negligent in this particular area.

I assume the reinforcements are keyed in at the beginning of each new battle turn, always at 100%(?)If true that's not exactly defined as such in my manual.

If you have an original operations map e.g. 2000X2000, and e.g. battle one has a map size of say 750X750, which part of the original operations map does it key onto? There is no such information in my manual.

In the opertaions scenario format you can also add "Reserves" in addition to Reinforcements? But to add a reserve takes a reinforcement slot? Doesn't say as much in my manual.

But thanks for your input but please be a little more patient/kind with us beginners.

Don't worry, you will soon get a personal challenge and get your just deserts.........with or without a manual!!!!

[Wild Bill Wilder]

Faust, my friend, the procedure has been properly outlined in these other posts and there is little left to say. But I'm wondering if your problem has been properly addressed as yet.

So here we go.

I'm personally not sure just how reserves work in an operation. I've never used it.

In an operation, what are reinforcement slots in a scenario now become battle slots.

Look at the wording and you'll see they are now subsequent battle slots. To my knowledge, you can't have reinforcements in an operation, just battles, one after the other.

I hope this is helpful.

Now as to the original problem, I'm not sure I understand the situation. You started a map for an operation, right?

Did you click on the button new operaton or new scenario?

When you saved it, what did you name it? You had to give it a name.

If you made the map under the new operation button, it has a cmc extension. It is still in the scenarios directory of the game, just as the battles are. There is not a separate directory for operations.

Scroll through scenarios to look for it, if that is where you saved it? Did you save it in saved games or in scenarios subdirectory?

We're talking the editor now, not the game.

Standing by...

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Wild Bill

Lead Tester

Scenario Design Team

Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord

billw@matrixgames.com

[Pak40]

"I assume the reinforcements are keyed in at the beginning of each new battle turn, always at 100%(?)If true that's not exactly defined as such in my manual."

I'm not sure what you mean by "keyed in" but I'll give you an example of how it works: lets say Reinforcement Slot #2 has three tanks and a platoon of infantry. The slot is set to arrive on battle 4, 50% of the time-- This means that ALL of the units in slot #2 have a 50% chance to arrive in battle 4. They will enter the battle in the setup phase of the battle, not during the battle itself.

"If you have an original operations map e.g. 2000X2000, and e.g. battle one has a map size of say 750X750, which part of the original operations map does it key onto? There is no such information in my manual."

Well, I havn't experimented too much with this but I assume CM tries to position the first battle where ever units from both sides exist. You may need to do some experimentation with where you place units. try spreading the defending unit's out and see where the first battle is placed. (BTW, there's lots of experimenting in making these operations-you're right, the manual is lacking in this area)

"In the opertaions scenario format you can also add "Reserves" in addition to Reinforcements? But to add a reserve takes a reinforcement slot? Doesn't say as much in my manual."

I havnt messed around with reserves but I assume they take a reinforcement slot.

"But thanks for your input but please be a little more patient/kind with us beginners."

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound impatient.

[Pak40]

Bill,

"Look at the wording and you'll see they are now subsequent battle slots. To my knowledge, you can't have reinforcements in an operation, just battles, one after the other."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, Bill, but there are 5 reinforcement slots in the OOB screen and you can select which battle that they arrive on as well as the probability of their arrival.

[Faust]

Wild Bill Wilder

Your the soul of tact! I have not had an opportunity to check all CM threads on this particular subject but from the initial back and forth on this one, there seems to be a need for some clarity, regardless. I should also add that my personal time is short and a lot of my questions are an atempt to get answers rather than hours of experimentation and frustration.

I named and saved the operations map to .cmc. I assumed, originally, that once within a .cmc file when you clicked "battle", that same .cmc map would come up and one placed the first battle units. Ditto for remaining battles as were originally set in paramaters. To me that would seem the logical way of designing it.

Bill, there is no mention in the book of using reinforcements mode as setting individual unit battle's within an Operation? There are only five reinforcement opportunities in each battle, (less any reserves?), yet the Operation parameters allow considerably more, 25 battles if you so choose. It's all a little vague but as you said, probably addressed in earlier threads.

What is your comment to PAK 40's response to mine "Well, I havn't experimented too much with this but I assume CM tries to position the first battle where ever units from both sides exist. You may need to do some experimentation with where you place units. try spreading the defending unit's out and see where the first battle is placed. (BTW, there's lots of experimenting in making these operations-you're right, the manual is lacking in this area)"

If e.g. there are five battles, are the units put on respective exit ends and the AI leaves them there to you to move subject to the new battle lines, (same as opertaions supplied in CM). But what is the point of choosing various sizes on individual battle maps if, (by choice) they are all smaller than the original scenario map? Where does the AI focus each smaller map?

Would not one use complete Operation map as default map size with all battles?

Then there is the calling in reserves, only applicable to Operations. Bill, as apart of the original braintrust on CM, I'm a little surprised that you personally have not used/applied the reserve factor in an Operation? It's one of the more intriguing aspects of the CM stratergy concept. Has there been a previous thread on "reserves" outlining the various AI parameters?

PAK40, thanks for your input.

[Pak40]

"If e.g. there are five battles, are the units put on respective exit ends and the AI

leaves them there to you to move subject to the new battle lines, (same as opertaions supplied in CM). But what is the point of choosing various sizes on individual battle maps if, (by choice) they are all smaller than the original scenario

map? Where does the AI focus each smaller map?"

Another thing I just thought of that might affect this is the "Attacker Comes From" setting. Example: suppose you choose a map size of 1200 x 3000 (3000 from east to west)and set the battle map size to 1200x1200, then set the Attacking side to East; The 1st battle will start on the easternmost side of the entire map. The defenders will be pushed back to the west as the operation evolves. Each battle after battle #1 will center around wherever CM decides to make no mans land (the front line).

Unfortunately, CM likes to redraw the front line in a straight line instead of keeping units where they were at the end of the previous battle. This means that defending units that worked hard to defend a farm house will be pushed back in the setup phase of the next battle, losing the ground that they worked so hard to defend.

BILL,

Have you talked with BTS about the topic above? I and many others feel that it's just plain unrealistic that the defending side gets pushed back after every battle. It happens even if no mans land is set to zero.