Ice Posted September 19, 2000 Share Posted September 19, 2000 ************* SPOILER ***************** Actually I played this to a nasty draw last night as the Allies. Saw my beautifully coordinated three-pronged assault go up in flames -- literally -- when the controversial four Tigers arrived behind the U.S. front lines and fifty meters from an infantry copmpany that was decimated after putting up a brave fight and claiming one and a half victories. Here is my question: In single-player mode, as the Americans, is it better to play the revised scenario or is the new version only applicable to PBEM-ming and single-player combat with the human playing the Germans? I have V.1.05. It's interesting, see; I do not know whether the placement/timing of these reinforcements is a brilliant, deliberate, if sadistic masterstroke of scenario design by Wild Bill, in which case it's only fair to tackle the original version again, or whether the issue is now considered sufficiently unbalancing to game-play to make the newer version preferable even when playing the Americans against the AI... Obviously an answer from Wild Bill himself would be the mother-lode but all comments are appreciated... ...and yes, I have done a search and read all previous posts... [This message has been edited by Ice (edited 09-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted September 19, 2000 Share Posted September 19, 2000 Hey Ice. A hard fight indeed. You must have really been rolling to have gotten that far! The appearance of the German reinforcements causes consternation in both versions of the game, depending on which side you play. For a single player taking the US side, the first version might give you a better chance. But again, infantry and armor should be working together as they move forward. Were none of your Pershings close enough to help out here? One and a half is not too bad if the Tigers woke up hungry in your front yard. Its really hard to say which is the best though I think my initial advice here might help. Small comfort, Ice, but that is the way this game plays. You have good ones and ones you don't want to remember, and from the same scenario! Wild Bill ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted September 19, 2000 Share Posted September 19, 2000 Sorry, double post. [This message has been edited by BeWary (edited 09-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted September 19, 2000 Share Posted September 19, 2000 SPOILER ALERT!!! I haven't played the 2nd revision, but many people complained about the first one and those 4 Tigers that come in from the side being too vulnerable if playing the Germans. I, on the other hand, playing the Americans, thought I was doing fine before those Tigers arrived. I had brought my Pershings and other forces into position to fire upon the Tiger and King Tiger and it's 2 supporting tanks, when out of the blue came 4 MORE tigers, flanking my forces on the left. It scared the crap out of me! I lost a Chaffee pretty quickly, as it tried to spin around a get a shot off. Luckily, my Pershing on that side was able to rotate 180 degrees fast enough, and three shots later, the 4 Tigers were reduced to one. I tell ya, that Pershing bounced a good 4 shots from those Tigers. I was ready to pin a medal on the Tank Commander, but I thought my monitor wouldn't appreciate that. However, the lead Tiger moved behind a hill and proceeded to kill one of my Jumbos and another 2 Shermans before a second Pershing came blazing up from behind and got a kill while moving at top speed on a road. I thought it was definitely exciting, and it did hurt my ability to take out the last of the German forces. However, had I not advanced so quickly, my tanks would have been in prime position to have a Tiger lunch. BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted September 19, 2000 Author Share Posted September 19, 2000 Thank you for your considerate and helpful reply, Wild Bill. Yes, I moved my troops up fast, as there is good cover on both flanks; getting to the village up the middle road is more of a fight. I was able to bring several of my tanks to bear on the Tigers but was unable to improve on my customary attrition rate of a just a little better than 1:2 in fights between Shermans and Tigers. My Pershings were engaged on the opposite flank. So, a tank battle lasting about five turns ensued, but I preserved my infantry (with the exception of the company that got run over by the Tigers) and was able to make the final assault on the severely-battered village successfully once the last Tiger was out of action. I believe my own mistake accounted for the draw instead of a minor or tactical victory, as, ten victory points ahead in the 24th turn, I moved an assault vehicle away from an Allied flag on the right, causing this flag to revert to a question mark by the end of the battle. Stupid. So: I'm replaying the CD version per your advice and I need to decide what to do to protect any infantry near the western road from turn 15. I wouldn't want to fight this battle without infantry on my left flank, and there's the problem in a nutshell. I reckon I could move them even further up-field so that they are not literally on top of the arriving Tigers and have some time to react to the threat from the rear. I could hold them back to ambush the Tigers, avoiding a rearguard action entirely, or I could get everything into position even faster than last time so that I can take the village and attack the Tigers from the cover of the (remaining) buildings by the time they appear. That's a tall order. Maybe this time I'll have my Pershings lurking in cover on the left flank. Whatever, the demanding thing about this situation is that one's resources are likely to be fully committed all over the map by the time this formidable new local threat arrives... I think it's a great challenge and a genuinely dramatic turn of events. [This message has been edited by Ice (edited 09-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted September 19, 2000 Author Share Posted September 19, 2000 BeWary: What was the final result of your battle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted September 19, 2000 Share Posted September 19, 2000 Hi Ice, I ended up killing those 4 Tigers, as I mentioned earlier, so I was able to concentrate on mopping up the Tiger and King Tiger. I had all of my infantry on the left flank near the King Tiger when the 4 other Tigers arrived, so they were not in danger. I guess I'm a bit agressive. I don't have enough experience yet to know if that's a good thing, but the only battle I've lost so far was the very first Chance Encounter I played in the demo. However, I've only played the AI. Anyway, the final outcome was an Allied minor victory, IIRC. I had 200 men ok, and the Germans had 20. I had lost 12 vehicles, and the AI lost around 19 (I think that includes guns too). I had all victory flags, and thought I should have gotten a better rating, but as I surmised in another post, I was probably penalized a lot because I lost so much armor. Good luck with your next try at this one. Maybe we could PBEM sometime. BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted September 19, 2000 Author Share Posted September 19, 2000 BeWary: I'd BeHappy (sorry!) to PBEM but I have a full-time job, a toddler, a new-born and a long-suffering spouse so I could probably manage only one or two turns a day. And I have no experience with PBEM although I have been considering it and will re-read the section about it in the manual. If I have not succeeded in putting you off, e me at bisaacson@dreamworks.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted September 20, 2000 Share Posted September 20, 2000 Ha ha, not put off at all. I actually have a wife, a toddler, and a long Honey Dew list myself. It might be a week or so before I'd be ready to start, cuz I kinda told her I'd get the Honey Dew list stuff done before I continue playing, but I did manage to get a turn in last night when she fell asleep on the couch (although I did ask her first if she minded ). <angel on BeWary's shoulder slaps him upside the head> This game is just too damned addicting. I was salivating for Diablo 2 for years, and now that it's out, I barely touch it with CM on my hard drive! Anyway, I'd probably only be able to do one turn a night too. My e-mail is bewary@mindspring.com I'll shoot ya an e-mail sometime, if I don't hear from you first. BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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