Combat Mission absolutely impossible?

[dogcow]

I must really be missing something with this game, or it's just impossible. I've played both sides on the demo's "chance encounter" and I always just get shot to hell before the battle is half over while capturing maybe one objective. Playing as the germans I had 1 stug destroyed, then the other 2 the next turn, on maybe turn 7 or 8. One rolled up over a hill and sat there for a few seconds in front of 5 shermans, not aiming or firing or anything, just stopped (it had a target with los), before getting blown to kingdom come. The other 2 fired once each before getting blown away, one missing, the other doing "front hull penetration" or some such to a sherman, which did exactly nothing, the sherman was perfectly mobile, had all guns working, etc. My troops go "shaken", "panic", "broken", "routed", anything whenever they get shot at once by anything. Basically 1/3rd of my troops were "breaking" or whatnot at any one time. Panzerschreck guys couldn't hit the broadside of the empire state building. The breaking teams are always under C&C but it doesn't seem to matter. 2 of my mg42's had jammed guns and apparently "broke" or "routed" because of that. One smg squad actually "broke" and ran out of a heavy building *toward* the enemy line. I quit the german scenario after a sherman actually leveled a 2 story building, killing several smg squads.

What am I possibly doing wrong? This game is impossible, when I quit that particular game it was at maybe the 15th turn and all 3 of my tanks were gone, most of my mg's and panzerschrecks were "routed" or killed. Anyone want to provide a basic walk through of either demo scenarios for those non veteran-army-commanders among us?

[Peterk]

Well, you're probably doing lots of stuff wrong judging by that description of the action.

The first thing you should do before

you even play the first turn is decide how careful/reckless you will have to be by reading your mission briefing. I haven't played CE for a little while but I recall that the first time I played it

as the Germans I definitely knew that caution was a good idea.

> and I always just get shot to hell before > the battle is half

> over while capturing maybe one objective

Maybe try not to worry about objectives at first and do some shooting

to hell yourself before you go for the flags. This scenario is like a little

game of chess and you start out with half of the objectives already so you're

not going to lose (or lose badly) if you can hold what you have at the beginning.

Try letting the Americans attack your position first, with your guys in good

cover, see if you can repulse them and THEN start thinking about

counterattacking for the flags - it'll be a lot easier at that point

because your opponent may be hurting.

I've gotten total victories without taking ANY objectives simply by causing

lots of damage to the other side. The flags are important but are not the ONLY

thing. Keeping your guys alive is usually a great idea.

> One rolled up over a hill and sat there

> for a few seconds in front of

> 5 shermans, not aiming or firing or >anything, just stopped

> (it had a target with los), before getting >blown to kingdom come.

If you're rolling your STUG over a hill where 5 Shermans can see it, you're

definitely being too reckless with your tanks. You have 3, they have 5. You can't

afford to be reckless. Keep your Stugs under cover, hidden behind buildings,

behind a smoke screen, manouver carefully trying to get to where you can

attack 1 Sherman with more than one of your Stugs simultaneously while the

other Shermans can just sit and watch. This is called divide and conquer. Be

super careful until the number of vehicles on each side starts to even out.

If you're down to your last Stug, be very careful with it and even hide it

away somewhere. Just the threat of it being on the board, even if it's not

doing much, makes the other side have to be careful and go slow. Once you have no

vehicles left and the other side has some you should start praying because

you're probably toast.

> I quit the german scenario after a sherman > actually leveled a 2 story

> building, killing several smg squads.

Well, tanks can destroy buildings and lots of players enjoy making buildings

explode (me included ), so it's probably not a great idea to hide your guys in

exposed buildings. Forests might be safer, but those can catch fire - nowhere

on the battlefield is 100% safe - but sometimes buildings can be really bad (you learn to tell).

That's enough for now I think. You're probably just being a little too gung-ho

and aggresive and not thinking enough about defense in this scenario. Some of the things that happen like the MGs jamming and hits on enemy tanks not doing much is just plain bad luck and there's not much that you can do about it.

Try to read some books on WWII tactics or find stuff on the net. Real-world tactics work really well in CM. Try to use games where you get clobbered as learning experiences. When something horrible happens to your guys, try to figure out why and don't do it again until you're sure you're

willing to risk the consequences. Your game is bound to get better and pretty

soon you'll be cruising.

Enjoy the ride!

[Cybeq]

Here's a tip: Try thinking like you are actually there on the battlefield. Move the view down to level 1 and scope out the battlefield from your soldiers' point of view. You're looking for positions that offer cover but allow a clear view of main approaches. Try to cover the approach with intersecting fields of fire. Hitting the enemy from different angles really puts the hurt on 'em. The German squads devastate from close range so keep 'em hidden. Suppress the enemy infantry with machine gun fire from long range and when they close unleash your infantry. You might try a flanking manuever. It'll help if you keep your Stugs positioned so they all have the same LOS, that way if a Sherman pokes his head out all your Stugs will open up. Once the enemy armor is defeated bring those Stugs out of hiding but keep 'em at least 100-200 meters from enemy infantry. They'll have a field day. I have the full version now and I only played Chance Encounter once on the demo. I played as the Americans and I got a total victory. The Germans surrendered. My first impression of CM was that it was too easy. Elsdorf (in the full version) changed my mind.

Last tip: Don't think gamey. Think real life. What works/worked in real life.

P.S. I used my Shermans to destroy the buildings that German AT teams were in. Sounds like the AI is doing the same thing!

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"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence." -Sun Tzu, The Art Of War

[This message has been edited by Cybeq (edited 07-15-2000).]

[Londoner]

Yes m8, try being abit more careful, the units u get in CE arn't offensively geared. Stugs r absolute gems in an ambush role, from your post it sounds like your using them in a stand-off role, no way can u take on all those Shermans at the same time with what u got. Same goes for the panzersreks, u cant run em up 2 a Sherman n expect them to come off on top. CE gives u plenty of time to get the German force into good defensive postions, forcing the US to attack. U'll even find Ger infantry platoons with panzerfausts r fairly capable of takin out a Sherman if ya organised properly. Bottom line: Don't use units in roles they weren't meant for unless u really have to. And remember, u don't have to take on the hole US force at once.

[Londoner]

Pete, i would disagree about the importance of the Stugs in CE. As long as u knock out at least a couple of Shermans with em, i found u could complete the job with the infantry, as long as they havn't been to mauled. If u keep a reserve in the woods u cant lose CE.

[Peterk]

Hi Londoner,

I would disagree with a lot of the things I said in my post in some circumstances , but it takes a bit of experience and patience to take on an opponent with AFVs if you don't have any. Being careful with the Stugs will probably lead to an easier less stressful game for a newbie.

p.

[Guest grunto]

you can run the germans up the left or south side and ambush the americans out of the woods in the southwest.

i did this once in a pbem with about 2 platoons and caused some damage to a nest of american macheinguns and mortars in those woods overlooking the junction/church.

his reinforcement platoon had to mop what remained of my ambushing troops up.

try to get your smg squads in a tight line in the northern woods around the objective flag at the top of the rise.

if they run straight on in a picket line into some americans in the woods they should do very well.

don't use sneak in the demo because your guys won't fire at anything.

with the stugs try to find the creases in the landscape which allow you to hide with just the top of the vehicle showing to the americans. those stugs are difficult vehicles to use.

with the americans you can load the tanks up with infantry and drive a lead force up to the intersection buildings on turns one and two.

you can also do a measured attack in which your troops generally advance in a line, establising firebases of machineguns and mortars in and around the farmhouses before your infantry squads advance (in a picket line) into the woods to the n-ne (the german-held woods)

never put more than one unit in any given building. if you're americans you can hang back and with your shermans, and knock that church down. you might want to wait until you see german 'crosses' in there. that would indicate the probability of german units being in there. one turn of all of your shermans firing at the church should take it down.

andy

[ARCHANGEL]

dogcow,

If you do a search on the main forum, you will find endless discussion of VOT, CE and other demo/gold scenarios and how to fight them. That should fix your situation.

[Londoner]

Agreed Pete.