On the Dniepr (Revisited)

[manchildstein (ii)]

This scenario is now version 1.3 and should be more balanced, but still difficult for the Axis on the attack:

On the Dniepr

Designed to be played as Hungarian against the AI

Default Computer Setup

Semi-Historical

Hungarian Attack

Aug 1941

Hot, Still, Dry Ground, Mid-day

Huge: About 3000 points per side, 2k x 2k Map

30+ Turns

Scenario Version 1.3

CMBB Version 1.0

Outside of Nikolaev elements of the 2nd Hungarian Motorized Brigade have been tasked with taking the high ground and the bridges on either side of a bend in the Dniepr. The hilltop with its "Manor" is one of the few pieces of high ground so seizing it in good time will allow your Axis main forces to set up artillery observation posts with far-reaching LOS. A couple of Battalions of Motorized Infantry are to take the bridges up river to your "left" (off-map). For your attack on the high ground you have the Brigade Recon Battalion, reinforced by the Brigade HMG (AA MG) and 40mm Bofors (AA) Companies.

Whichever attack - your own against the high ground or the one against the bridges - succeeds first is supposed to reinforce the other.

The main body of your available trucks have - in conjunction with your light tanks - debarked your Infantry Company, Pioneer Platoon, Battalion Commander and support units (Light Mortars, ATRs, AT, HMG, Bofors).

Your trucks have already returned to a place behind the main lines. Your towed and passenger units are just now completing the process of forming up for the imminent assault.

Your Battalion Commander has scoped out a couple of small hills on the approaches to Nikolinaev (the town at the foot of the hilltop) and your reinforcements from Brigade have a couple of options as to where to deploy in order to provide decent covering fire for the attack.

The guns are in place.

Your armor is massed on the main road into town while your infantry already occupy 'forward' positions.

In approaching these jump-off points you have spotted several BT tanks. In your initial setup for this battle your units are more-or-less out of harm's way at the moment.

It is important that you take this hill - no matter what the cost - quickly before the Soviets have a chance to reinforce it. Yours are the only immediately available units. The haste of the attack precludes the laying of wire needed by your 105mm FOs, and those guns are not currently available for front-line, direct fire duty. The Battalion-organic 47mm AT, the reinforcement Bofors and HMG; these could be your margin of victory here.

You're facing units of the vaunted Soviet 9th Army.

You're going to need to close fast in order for the 20mm guns on the Toldi Tanks and Csaba Armored Cars to have any effect - even against the thin armor of what are ostensibly BT tanks. The big question is as to just what kind of units the Soviets have amassed here in support of their armor. It is tough to tell just what might lurk in the patches of scattered trees here where the collective farms - orchards and sunflower fields - with their squat, cookie cutter houses contrast with both the peasant shacks around and about and the old manor overlooking the river, stark reminders of Czarist times and the latter probably now inhabited by functionaries of the party.

In any case a good rule of thumb for your armor is to keep it moving while keeping it together.

Your infantry - now on foot - is going to have to find a way to storm the town. It is currently assembled at or near what is probably the most covered approach; through the main collective orchard on the near right.

Just remember. Your own (2nd) Recon Battalion is one of the only (2) "spearheads" of this type available to the "Hungarian Mobile Corps" in 1941.

Aftermath: In the actual campaign, the Hungarian Mobile Corps fought along the Dniepr, and took Nikolaev (not to be confused with the "village of Nikolinaev" in this scenario) from the West while the German 16th Panzer Division stormed in from the East. However, in that battle most of the Soviet 9th Army did escape desruction.

"The (Hungarian Mobile) Corps finally got its well-deserved rest after the capture of Nikolaev as it was placed in reserve at Krivoi Rog from 24 August. This only lasted a week or so as the Corps was to defend a 200 km (120 mile) stretch of the Dnepr River from Dnepropetrovsk to Nikopol while the 1st and 2nd Panzer Groups encricled the Soviet Southwestern Front behind Kiev. The most dangerous part of this sector was the island opposite Zaporozhe."

As the fighting wore into Autumn the Corps was fairly well shot. By something like Nov 1941 the Hungarian Mobile Corps had lost all of its MG Tankettes, 80% of its Toldi Tanks and 90% of its Csaba Armored Cars.

Here are some websites you can go to if you want to look into this Campaign:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/hung_tw.html

http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/015_hungary/41_org/brig_mot_41.html

http://www.hungary.com/corvinus/lib/thou/thou14.htm

Scenario Order of Battle:

1941 Hungarian Recon Battalion at 70% manpower, and minus 2 47mm AT Guns (3 AT guns on board).

1 Battalion HQ /w 81mm FO

1 Company Infantry

1 Platoon Pioneers

2 "50" mm Mortar

3 ATR

15 Toldi (20mm; 15 of 20 remaining from Tank Company)

8 Csaba (20mm; "6 remaining" of 12 from Battalion Armored Car Company (10) plus 2 Battalion Commander vehicles)

12 Tankettes (MG; 12 of 20 remaining from Company)

From Brigade:

4x 40mm Bofors AA

8x HMG

The Hungarian Mobile Corps was reputed to have had the best soldiers of that nationality. That is why the units here are all rated "Veteran" and above.

Notes:

Easier Version of the orginal, "On the Dniepr."

Spoiler Info:

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The first version of this scneario was unduly difficult, at least for the likes of this designer. In adding the supporting Bofors guns - something which had been there in earlier versions of the scenario - it looks like the Hungarians have a fighting chance in at least seizing the flags in the town before the hill. As it was - in my experience at least - it was impossible to do any more than contest the flags at the bottom of the hill whilst having absolutely no hopes of even approaching those on top of the hill.

With the 4 Bofors available it should be relatively easy to knock out the KV2; and the KV2 is the key to the town.

Also, in this 1.3 version of the scenario the infantry has a much better jump-off point for the attack. Contact should be made much sooner.

In any event I would still rate this scenario as "difficult" - an average score of 30-70 might be about right.

[manchildstein (ii)]

first of all, thanks to Keth for making these 3 new scenarios visible on the scenario depot so quickly...

also, thanks to Tracer for the review of this particular scenario.

SPOILERS

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indeed i found this particular battle very difficult... so much so that i was worried no one would download my scenarios any more...

in any case, every time i played it, afterwards i would say to myself, 'i could have manuevered better.'

manuever is extremely important here... those toldis and csabas really need to back each other up... piecemeal they're extremely dead...

the version of this battle is now 1.3 and has been updated at the scenario depot... now it has 4 additional supporting 40mm Bofors, and about 10 added HMGs...

with the bofors and the at guns, you can set up on both of your hills at the start, and have firing lanes over a good part of the map... i think that the key is to somehow get a bead on the kv2 with the multiple bofors, and get the crew to abandon by overwhelming it with fire...

... in version 1.3 the infantry also have a better setup zone, so it might actually be possible to get a draw (control outright the flags in the town while the soviets still own the hill)...

i would be interested to hear if anyone - using either version 1.1 or 1.3 - is able to get a victory in this one...

win or lose though... i found it to be a blast... and there was always room for improvement on my part...

thanks again everyone...

[demoss]

Say, where can one get the updated version? The Scenario Depot still lists the 1.1 version.

I'm positively drooling over all the minor axis stuff you're posting - On the Dniepr was already on my short list to play next.

Thanks!

[manchildstein (ii)]

Originally posted by demoss:

Say, where can one get the updated version? The Scenario Depot still lists the 1.1 version.

...

Thanks!

i checked the file there on the depot and from the looks of it Keth updated it this morning - even though it still says 1.1...

thanks for the encouragement... i was waiting for cmbb - about 2 weeks prior to getting it - and the thought hit me... 'do some minor allied scenarios...'

i still have to make a couple italian ones... and a red attack against the romanians..... then there's 1942 and...

anyway, someone on this bbs had a tagline mentioning that the alpini was unbeaten... so a 'crack alpini force' is on the drawing boards...

as for germans... was going to do an 11th panzer but stumbled across another battle ... 111th infantry at dubno against soviet 34th tank division and supporting elements...

am working on that one now... 'soviet 34th tank at dubno against german 111th recon elements'...

it's called, 'dubno'

will yet have to get to something about the 11th panzer, etc....

[Admiral Keth]

Whoops! Sorry, the file attached to the scenario "On The Dniepr" is the 1.3 version, I simply failed to update the synopsis.

[manchildstein (ii)]

Short AAR/Spoiler:

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I revisited this one last night and wanted to post a few comments. Just in case you've downloaded and played this one and lost, don't feel bad. I'm the designer and managed just a 20-80 defeat.

Don't get me wrong though; even in such defeat I enjoy playing this game.

That said, I managed to inflict about 5:1 casualties on the Soviets.

I started with the default infantry setup, but took all of the AFVs and placed them on the far right, then in the opening turns I moved everything up through the "collective farm."

The 47mm AT guns were place in scattered trees near the bend in the road just outside of town.

The 40mm Bofors and supporting HMGs were left in default.

On turn 1, as the infantry and AFVs began their movement through the farm, 1 of the Bofors caught immediate sight on the KV-2 in the town intersection, and must have 'got the jump' on the beast. Apparently as a result of early fire from the Bofors, the KV-2 never fired a shot. It sat there for a couple of turns then began reversing into the soft ground by the church.

The attack through the farm made good progress, and the AFVs managed to take out a number of guns on the hillside at the 'back' of the board. Any Soviet infantry in the path of my combined force simply melted away.

At some point, even though I thought the attack was going quite well, I realized that there were only 7 AFVs left with 20mm cannons. The rest were knocked out or abandoned. Even though 7 or 8 BT tanks were destroyed just to my left (W) of the town, more appeared in the distance.

The infantry closed with the intersection, and the remaining 20mm AFVs crossed the street out into the flat just to the west of the road running north/south into town; before that though they pelted the KV2 with numerous shots, forcing the thing back into the scattered woods behind the soft ground by the church. Those were tense moments as a single shot from the 152mm gun of the KV could have killed multiple Toldis/Csabas.

I'd been playing with detailed armored hits off all game so I was not yet aware that the KV's guns was disabled.

So after the KV retreated and the remaining 20mm AFVs had crossed the road, there they got into a nasty fight with the remaining BTs.

Throughout the battle the Bofors and 47mm AT guns racked up their share of kills, and kept the remaining BTs from advancing into their kill zones. The main kill zone was the area just west of the road where my own AFVs had moved into.

Anyway, this battle really seems to favor the AI as the first batch of 10 flags is far enough behind (north of) the road intersection that friendly Axis units cannot seem to affect their control from the south side of the road.

This meant that I sent a platoon running across the road and toward the scattered trees where, in addition to the KV there were assorted (I assumed) broken Soviet infantry units.

Those squads were stopped short, in the open by a 76mm Soviet gun.

After they began retreating, broken and casualty-laden, I tried another approach with another platoon. Soviet fire had died down a bit more so I used the covered (brush) approach to some abandoned Soviet foxholes at the intersection proper and rushed a platoon there.

3 squads crossed the n-s road to the west side and occupied some foxholes just off (south of) the intersection while their platoon hq occupied a foxhole on the east side of the road, again just south of the intersection.

By then it was about turn 23 out of 30+ and I didn't figure much more progress could be made. The church was on fire and I was down to about 2 or 3 operating Toldis. 4 tankettes continued to sit - on the 'other side of the map' - about the buildings on the right. This was all of the armor I had left.

Aside from the platoon I foolishly sacrificed to the 76mm gun in the open, most of my infantry was in fairly good shape.

Still, the positioning of the flags meant more movement through the open, and there were still guns on the hill active, and BTs on the far left with apparent LOS/LOF into the intersection.

Interestingly, the 81mm FO called in fire a few times, and the first two times the barrage was 'way off' target. I mean 200-300 meters away! I was lucky the shells didn't fall on my own guys. 'Finally' I moved the FO up into LOS of the church, and the barrage around there was accurate. It was what caused the fire in the church.

I figured I'd lost the battle 'on paper' with my failure to control any of the flags. I also figured that in 'real life' some kind of reinforcements - either heavy artillery or a series of airstrikes or even the appearance of a reinforcement infantry battalion - would have been necessary to have given my forces the leverage to have gotten across the road, then onto the hill proper.

In looking at the map after the turn 23 cease-fire:

As it turned out, the platoon just south of the intersection kept possession of about 8 or 9 of the 10 flags by the church from the Soviets... they were contested instead. I could see 1 or 2 of them in the mix that were Soviet red though. Of course the 10 flags on the hill were solidly in Soviet hands.

There were still 8 or 10 BTs operating on the left (west).

A couple of 25mm AA guns were sitting on the hillside but were completely out of ammo.

As for the 'star' of the battle. I fink it was a witto MG tankette with 11 infantry 'kills.'

Anyway, I just wanted to post this one as encouragement to Tracer and anyone else who may have played this battle; I find it is a tough one.

Score:

Designer 20

AI 80

[demoss]

More SPOILERS ahead....

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As for the 'star' of the battle. I fink it was a witto MG tankette with 11 infantry 'kills.'

Yeah, those things are DEVASTATING! You wouldn't think it, but they ROCK. I had more than one with double-digit kills, and I don't think I had any with ammo remaining at game end.

I tried this one and managed about a 53-47 draw. The KV was ultimately gun-disabled (after a LONG time - the darn thing somehow moved out of LOS of ALL my AT assets), then panicked, bogged in scattered trees while retreating, immobilized and bailed out. I suspect, judging from the "detailed" armor hits (which aren't really that detailed), that it was an ATR that knocked out the KV's gun. What an ignominious end! It had killed my FO with a stray shell (I don't think there's any way it actually spotted him, just was firing at a vehicle that happened to get shocked in the WRONG spot, missed, and took out the FO's building), but did little else due to constant ball-peen-hammering.

I had split my armor about 50% in the original locations and 50% on the right, which isn't really "piecemeal" given the quantities present, IMO - I felt I needed the tactical flexibility in case the Collective Farm turned out to be too heavily defended for vehicles to pass, which fortunately it wasn't. That said, I probably should have put it all on the right - the center/left vehicles accomplished very little and overall were probably detrimental to the cause, because it was one of THOSE that the KV was shooting at when he nailed my FO. The AT & AA guns took out almost all of the BTs (but a couple never showed themselves). The Toldis took out a ton of guns, but usually lost a tank for each one. The CV-33s slaughtered the Russian infantry. I took the church, but never got anywhere near the manor.

I think the most realistic chance for a Hungarian win is to take the church & inflict more casualties than suffered (the victory conditions are surprisingly ASL-like in essence). I was SO close that I am certain it can be done, particularly in light of my unlucky (stupid, too - there never should have been a vehicle anywhere near there, because I already knew about the KV) early loss of the FO. Even without the FO, I probably could have done it if I had maneuvered just a little better.

[manchildstein (ii)]

more spoilers

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--The Toldis took out a ton of guns, but usually lost a tank for each one. --

that matches my experience... i'm glad to hear someone bested the ai here...

you have the same idea as me... take the church and inflict more casualties... in my case though it was just out of reach...

the way your fo died is 'something else'... i mean... 'weird'/tragic...

yes that kv2 seems quite 'slippery'....

thanks for the 'aar'...

i'm currently working on one called 'hill 267 point 9' and it is about the 11th panzer wheeling about and attempting to clobber elements of the soviet 34th tank corps (7th and 8th armored, 11th mech) on the outskirts of 'dubno'....

it has a huge 3k x 2k map with a huge hill in 'steppy' terrain with the 'outskirts of dubno' on one edge...

at some point after that i think i will try something involving the 2nd hungarian army in '42...

anyway, but yes those little tankettes have a lot of ammo, and if you can get them into mismatches against enemy infantry they do quite well...