Beaten again

[Locksley]

Hey all

I'm afraid I've got another couple of quick questions since I had another hotseat game with a mate of mine this morning and got beaten, again.

I was playing as the Germans this time on a map my friend had made (he showed me it in the editor before hand so he wouldn't have too much of an advantage).

I've tried to get screenshots we took but my friend's (lets use his name, Rob) computer completely broke while trying to play Myth III. Anyway, I'll try to explain the relief etc. as I think it will be important so you can (vaguely) follow what I'm on about. The following is from what I remember, might be the odd tank/field out.

Down the centre of the map there is a long road avenued by trees from about the middle to my side of the map. On my right there is a large hill with a moderate covering of trees. Then just left of the centre of the map there is another smaller rise, heavily wooded on the very top. The rest of the map is made up of large fields with the odd house.

From seeing the editor I knew Rob was going to get 3 companies of British Infantry with a couple of 25pdrs, some kind of spotter and a dozen tanks (about 6 Cromwells and 2 Fireflies and 4 Churchills ( IIRC earliest ones with 75mm guns, Churchill VII?) and has reinforcements of 2 companies arriving 23 turns in.

I had just less than 4 companies of German Waffen SS troops with 3 105mm guns 9 AFVs (4 Mark IVs, 1 Tiger, 2 Marder IIIs, a Lynx and 1 halftrack 251/1, with reinforcements of 3 platoons, coming 19 turns in).

I can see I have a smaller force but I reckon the SS are more than a match for the Brits.

I quickly send 2 companies to my left with as many as possible being ferried on the Lynx and HT. I figure that if I can get up on to the left of centre hill and set up ambush points by the road and fields, which run down by the side of the hill, I’ll see get good line of sight and hopefully be able to ambush some of his troops and tanks.

I set my artillery up on the hill to my right with a bit of cover but good LOS. My tanks I keep back with a company of SS ready to send them to the main point at which the British seem to be attacking. My Marders I send with infantry support into hedgerows on my right in front of the hill.

The first question is, is this okay? Are there any pointers you would recommend?

For the first 9 turns or so every things goes fine I think I even managed to kill a couple of platoons worth with my artillery.

From then on though it all goes downhill.

On the left-hand hill my troops are suddenly attacked by a short but very sharp artillery bombardment, and then wasted by 5 or six platoons worth. I managed to knock out 3 of Rob’s Cromwells and a bit of infantry with my ambushes, but then they too are overwhelmed. On my right I loose one of my 105mms and the other two are running low on HE ammo. Across the fields my Marders are protecting come all 4 Churchills and a load of infantry. My Marders keep firing and firing but can’t destroy the Churchills with their damn thick armour. I tried flanking them but that didn’t work either and I lost a Marder to infantry fire. The other was soon taken out too. I manage to 'shrek 1 Churchill but the others soon routed my defending infantry.

All this has happened by turn 15

Most of my reserve force had by this time boosted the right-hand hill defence but in a quick tank battle I lost all 4 Mark IVs to an ambush by the Fireflies just after taking out Robs other 3 Cromwells.

The fantastic Tiger faired rather better, losing its mobility but taking out lots of infantry and all the remaining Churchills.

But with no mobile tanks left and little infantry, Rob’s 2 companies of reinforcements would have swamped me despite my reinforcements having just arrived. Therefore I surrendered.

Allied Victory 63 - 37

The second thing I wanted to know is shouldn’t mostly Elite (I think) SS stand up to normal Veteran British Infantry, my Germans just panicked stupidly easily.

Bad luck or bad generalship?

I think I know why I lost though;

I was not patient enough and didn’t wait for him to come to me,

I didn’t put enough effort into recon

And he made a fairly unbalanced scenario (although a good commander should be able to overcome this)

But on a positive note not bad for my 2nd proper battle against a human.

Any suggestions/criticisms very welcome.

Sorry this has kind of taken the form of a not-very-well written AAR, but thanks for any replies.

Expectantly and gratefully

Tom

[Dandelion]

Hi again Tom,

First off I have to agree with your analysis. Too much in a hurry and too little recon (I presume, as we get no information of enemy movements until they trample your positions in the AAR). But also on the positive note. I think you're doing quite well.

I seem to spot a strong affinity for high ground. Personally, I find high ground rarely warranting deployment. Although the denial of enemy deployment there might of course a prime concern.

Deploying on summits, crestlines or forward slopes makes it possible for your enemy to concentrate all his direct and indirect fire on your positions. Positions quite easily scouted too. The u friendly units deploying thus also usually end up with a field of fire too vast to control, meaning all enemy units can target them but they themselves having limited possibilities of answering back (i.e. one at a time).

If you deploy on the reverse slope (i.e. the side facing away from the enemy) of the hills, you of course lose ability to engage the enemy over long ranges. But if it had been a good idea to engage him in this manner - i.e. if you had stronger ranged firepower - he would probably not be attacking in the first place. Typically, an attacker will have superior firepower and so typically, the defender is wise to keep a low profile and seek to acquire short combat ranges. Especially when British and Germans are engaging, as the Germans have more generous amounts of submachineguns (which will help you only at ranges 75 meters or less really).

Positions on reverse slopes are very difficult for your enemy to scout and map, probably impoissible to observe directly for artillery spotters and quite impossible to soften up with any direct fire. In addition, the reverse slope presents a smaller target for the enemy artillery to hit, especially firing blindly. It has to do with angles. Artillery comes in at an angle from the enemy side. Its the same principle that makes it so hard to get that tennis ball landing on the opponent side of the tennis court.

As the enemy advance on you, it is then he who is forced to cross the crestline, exposed to your close range defensive fire. The more difficult targetting is especially useful, as the enemy spotters are very unlikely to be able to directly observe any of your units on a reverse slope.

If you deploy close enough to the crest/summit (not too close), the enemy will find it quite impossible to make any use of it himself.

Reverse slopes, gullies, the heart of forested spots, midpoint of houses. Stay in cover, keep your head down and make sure your field of fire is narrow enough for you to dominate it. As attacker, your opponent does not have that luxury.

Of course, recon teams and observers can always deploy wherever they like. The enemy won't find them anyway if they lie still.

Deploy at depth when facing armoured units, meaning usually two up one rear (platoons, squads, companies).

Deploy with interlocking fields of fire between units, and mutually supporting positions (i.e. guys in one position can fire at the area around another friendly position to help defend it).

Flanking fire is ideal. Thats easiest achieved by having a LOS block in the direction of the enemy, and fields of fire at 45 degree angle left and right. This way you'll always get flank shots, and once firing, he won't be able to lead in direct fire support on you.

Allow enemy lead elements to pass ambush positions before opening up (only possible if you have veteran units or better).

The detaching of a reserve was quite veteran-ish I think. Reserves are extremely useful, but must of course be provided with a covered approach to their intended insertion points. A variant of reserves is the positioning of part of a force in a defensive position slightly rear of the others. If their firepower is desperately needed, you can always move them forward. If not, you will find the swift counterattack one of the most lethal infantrykillers available. Make it a flank attack and make it extremely immediate, while the enemy is still on the move.

When facing enemies with overwhelming armoured support, its often a good idea to have alternate positions. One retreats there after a few rounds of combat (i.e. to just about when his armour rolls up). Ideally, covered retreat lanes are provided, and why not set a trap or ambush while departing.

Well that's about what an old useless knowitall can think of at this late hour.

Keep at it

Dandelion

[Locksley]

No, not at all, that's very helpful. I did send out recon elements of about a platoon or so in a couple of directions. But either Rob was very subtle with his troop movements or I did not send out enough scouts in the right direction, because on only a couple of occasions did I ever see more than a few squads moving around at a time. I think it is probably the latter as to move that many troops that quickly, they'd have to be near invisible.

Thanks again it is helpful and useful for my soon to come (I hope) vengance.

Tom

[Rokossovski]

This is a very small and perhaps obvious point, but I would not be too quick to assume that SS Troops are "elite" in any fashion unless they have been designated as such in the scenario. There is little inherently superior about the Waffen SS (spiffy uniforms aside) unless the scenario designer enhances their quality.

[Locksley]

No sorry, I should have said, they were elites and the British were veterans, that was one of Rob's excuses for giving me less stuff.

Thanks

Tom

[Beta1]

Yep 1 on 1 you would expect your elites to wipe the floor with the vets

BUT

Brit rifle companies are very cheap. By the sound of it he did most of the attacking which meant he could concentrate his comapnies and fight you at good odds. Once he had his tanks whacking HE into your position your elites might as well have been green. Infact in some ways its worse - greens run away, most of them escape and you can rally then and bring them back. Elites tend to stubbornly cling on and get killed. Being elite does not protect you against shells.

[Code13]

I think the major factor is he designed the map and so knew ever facet of it, which would have meant he knew how to move troops unseen and where best his armour could move from.