Sig Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 Hello, Artillery as we all know is very often the Nemesis of the AT gun (at least in CMBO). I would like to share with you a little experience I had in a PBEM against a friend. Once upon a time... A QB with green Germans defending against crack GIs, and a PaK40 in a nice flanking position, far, far at the end of the map. The courageous little AT gun fires and kills an evil Sherman 76 (Ja!). You guess what happens next: bombardment! 81mm, the complete FO allotment (200 shells or so) on the AT gun's position. End result: 2 casualties, position held, no panic (they where green, remember...), and add 2 HT to the score, plus some infantry. Iron Crosses for everybody. What's the secret: the gun was in command of a leader with a moral bonus (+1 in this case) and was positioned on the slope of a hill looking like a truncated pyramid. When you bombard such a position, very few hits would fall both close to the gun AND at the same level. This decreases dramatically the efficacy of any shelling, and, obviously increases proportionally the life expectancy of the gun. My suggestion to all of us who like to keep our beloved guns alive: a good anti-arty position (i.e. on a slope) is OK, but it's imperative to have a HQ with a moral bonus to lead these guys! And it works! (Donning steel helmet) Any comments? Sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted September 4, 2001 Share Posted September 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sig: [QB]Hello, My suggestion to all of us who like to keep our beloved guns alive: a good anti-arty position (i.e. on a slope) is OK, but it's imperative to have a HQ with a moral bonus to lead these guys! And it works! (Donning steel helmet) Any comments? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Its also good to have a Sharpshooter button up the Tank/s you're targeting with the ATG. They're less likely to spot the Gun if it keeps missing. The trick you speak of with the slope will certainly be less effective if the enemy hits you with bigger artillery than a 'lil old 81mm due to the (tremendously) higher blast radius. I also look for combat bonuses for an ATG to increase the hit%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priest Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 Just an FYI. It is called reverse slope and is beneficial for any unit using it (for armor it is basically hull down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galatine Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Sig is suggesting placing guns _on_ a peak, not behind it, so that the artillery will fall mostly beneath the units elevation. Like the rain falling on a flag pole, few will hit the top while most will land far below. I believe reverse slope rather uses forward terrain as a mask to limit fields of fire. Sig, I totally agree with you on using moral bonus command units with guns. Moral bonus' really help but a command unit is essential. Your idea of using elevation against bombardment is interesting but isn't it just somewhat trading the danger of indirect (IE-Mortar and off-map artillery) for direct fire by making your unit a beacon on a height? Personally I avoid any extreme elevation with my AT guns, preferring instead to use them to exert control over a specific and limited, but key area of the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDennis Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 "The first rule of anti-tank is always hit them in the flank." The "reverse slope" defense is a classic defense. It was (and still is) the preferred defense of the former Soviet Army. The basic idea is you are sitting in a defensive position (and one the Russian Steppe or the NE German Plain) it is generally in the open and the only protection is what your or someone else's shovel provides. The idea is to be far enough down the slope (and it should not be a steep slope) that the enemy is only able to bring a small portion of his force to bear on you at a time. As each armored vehicle crests the top of the slope you shoot them before they are able to bring their guns to bear and the vehicles behind them aren't able to see where the rounds came from. Yes a lot of artillery can suppress/kill the defender but as the artillery forward observer can't see the defensive position (blocked by terrain) the barrage effectiveness is based on luck (or lack thereof). A Reverse slope defense is a "combined arms" affair and you have to have supporting positions on the flanks and a counter attack force to make it work. As for putting a defensive position on the near crest of a hill. It does work, (don't be on the forward side) and if you have to have positions there, tunnel through the top of the hill, like the North Koreans and the Chinese did in the Korean War. The Chinese and the North Koreans loved to station their mortars at the near crest of the hill because it did make counter fire difficult, approximately 20-50 feet in elevation below the crest (remember the mortar is an indirect fire weapon, unless you are firing at a very high hill or building). The observer would be in a place (dangerous of course) where he could see over the hill and still call in fire. [ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: BobDennis ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted September 7, 2001 Author Share Posted September 7, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Galatine: Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Sig is suggesting placing guns _on_ a peak, not behind it, so that the artillery will fall mostly beneath the units elevation. Like the rain falling on a flag pole, few will hit the top while most will land far below. I believe reverse slope rather uses forward terrain as a mask to limit fields of fire. Sig, I totally agree with you on using moral bonus command units with guns. Moral bonus' really help but a command unit is essential. Your idea of using elevation against bombardment is interesting but isn't it just somewhat trading the danger of indirect (IE-Mortar and off-map artillery) for direct fire by making your unit a beacon on a height? Personally I avoid any extreme elevation with my AT guns, preferring instead to use them to exert control over a specific and limited, but key area of the map.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes I agree with you that placing a gun on top of a hill is a bad idea, esp. if the field of view is vast. However, in the case I was explaining I was lucky in that the hill had a *flat* top (truncated pyramid form), so I could place the gun on the reverse slope (for flanking fire), a HQ on top (for spotting possible incoming ennemies) and a HMG on a lateral slope (in case ennemy inf. would try an assault). The flat summit meant that a significant number of the missing rounds landed harmlessly for my gun (the HQ had a hard time though). This would have been more difficult with a normal slope: as you know, the crest *does not* protect against explosion on the other side (the blast goes through the crest, game engine limitation). Something to keep in mind when placing valuable but fragile assets on a reverse slope! Sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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