Urban movement

[Liebchen]

Search produces nothing but pre-release speculation, so...

I am playing 'Hell on Earth' the Stalingrad Pack operation. It is quite a wonderful experience, all in all, BUT I am experiencing some confusion as to urban movement, to whit: My basic presumption has always been that one could move units from a rubbled area to an immediately adjacent building (two-story, heavy, in case anyoen's unclear on the concept of 'urban'). In the first round of the op, I had no reason to suspect this theory, but in round two things have gotten shaky!

Now (now that the morning mist has risen and the enemys' guns way down the boulevard can shoot my men, that is) suddenly units moving from ruins to immediately adjacent intact buildings get re-routed by the AI to run all the way around the block and into the street where the enemy can shoot them.

Can anyone elucidate a clear and predictable rule for movement from rubble to adjacent intact building, or must I chalk this up to the vagaries of urban wartime chaos?

[jKMkIII]

Lets think about it little bit.

In normal city you have 2 buildings next to each other, wall to wall. Of course they do not have any doors or windows on this wall.. why would they because hard to move through door if there is wall of next building there

So at this point you blow down first building. What you get? One rubble and and building which has wall without doors or windows on wall that is next to that rubble.

You see why your men get rerouted to street where there are actually doors/windows they can use to get into building

Perhaps someday in CMX you could blow holes into such walls, but not yet in CM2.

[Liebchen]

I would largely agree with your analysis, were this a strict simulation of real life. In RL people can't move from one apartment building directly into the next without using extraordinary means. In RL one cannot enter a building from any point of its exterior, for that matter, but must usually rely upon the use of doors and windows.

Of course, this is not RL, is it. The question had to do more with what the CM rules allow and disallow. CM allows infantry to access buildings from any point (usually).

The problem is one of internal consistency.

Recall that the starting premise (that one could move from rubble to adjoining intact building) was based upon experience. My units made this move constantly throughout the first battle of the operation. They were not re-routed once.

I analyzed this as being internally consistent with the CM movement rules. Take a large building square in the open. In CM, a unit can move into that square from any of the four sides.

Now when two large buildings are adjoining, movement from one directly through to the other is prohibited. But when one building is rubbled, the still-erect building is now the equivalent of a stand-alone two-story building.

As I stated, this theory was supported by practice -- until I got to the second battle. <u>Then</u> (and only then) did the units start to get re-routed. And -- interestingly enough --even in battle 2, some units are allowed to move directly from rubble into adjacent still-standing buildings without being re-routed.

It is the lack of internal consistency that bothers me. I need to know what units are capable or incapable of doing. I also need to know what the <u>enemy</u> is capable of doing. If moves are arbitrarily allowed or disallowed at different times, then I could end up passing a block by as 'a barrier' only to have Russians sneak through it later, when is proves to be passable to <u>them</u>.

[jKMkIII]

Ahh. Sorry didn't read your post well enough.

Did those units that could enter from rubble to building enter same buildings as those that didn't? I was thinking if there was difference between building that was set in editor next to rubble (it would be considered lonely building) and then building that was next to building that collapsed during game?

And were all buildings/rubbles of same type? For example if one rubble was factory and other was heavy building? I am not 100% sure but I think you can move from factory to heavy building if they are next to each other.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by jKMkIII:

Did those units that could enter from rubble to building enter same buildings as those that didn't? I was thinking if there was difference between building that was set in editor next to rubble (it would be considered lonely building) and then building that was next to building that collapsed during game?

Another thought occurred to me. Let's take two cases, both involving a pair of adjacent two-level, heavy buildings. In each pair, one building becomes rubbled. The only difference is that in one pair the two buildings are in immediate contact with each other at the beginning and the other pair begin with a slight but detectable space between them. Is it possible to set them up in the editor this way? If so, does it make a difference in the ability to move directly from one to the other?

Michael

[Frunze]

I ran into this phenom in the Schoenhauser Alee scenario. Sometimes you can't move directly from rubble into a building, and sometimes you can't move directly from a building into rubble.

I don't know why it's sometimes possible and sometimes now, but there's one way of telling if it is before committing to the move: drag your movement order cursor across the path of the move. If you can't make the move directly, the cursor will turn red near the wall of the building.

And yeah, you can move from factory to heavy building, and vice versa, at least sometimes. I did it in Danube Blues.

[ November 28, 2002, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Frunze ]