Assault Tips?

[Samhain]

Any detailed suggestions on how to carry out a full-scale assault against a town? Here's a sample QB situation: medium-sized map, large and dense town in the center/rear of the map, moderate tree cover and large hills. The town is far enough from attacker's setup zone to make lots of HT's or other motorized transport recommendable if not required to get the troops close within a reasonable time period. Three main roads lead to town, two parallel each other through valleys (visible to numerous high points near the town), one rises over a huge hill directly at the front of town. The assault is at dawn/dusk (i.e., limited visibility).

30 turns. No intel. 3000 point assaulting force versus 1500 point defensive force.

This is of course a very broad question, but here are some issues I'm particularly interested in, along with any other tips:

Basic force composition: roughly how much to spend on arty, armor, infantry, transport for the infantry, etc.; also, what basic types of armor (tanks, assault guns, etc.) and troops.

When to call in arty in relation to the start of the game and the progress of your scouting or adavance. Move the FO's up behind scouts for clear LOS, putting them at risk, or leave them in safety in the back, slowing arty response time and accuracy?

Recommended type of scouting (composition, speed, etc.).

Force division. Scout for a weakpoint and sent in the majority there (possibly getting bunched up for enemey arty)? Two main flanking forces? How much of a reserve?

Speed of advance.

This is a messy situation for the attacker, to be sure. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 11-03-2000).]

[Wolfe]

Old post on the subject:

Close Assault

- Chris

[Samhain]

Thanks. Some excellent advice about taking the town itself in that thread. My question is broader, regarding the initial phases of a large-scale assault on a town and its outlying regions, the latter also containing VL's and/or enemy units. This is made more difficult (?) by lots of very high hills: valleys provide some cover, but they also bunch your forces, making arty fodder. The crests are doubly vulnerable positions, though tophat and lowsky tank maneuvering can work for a while, before the need to move to a new crest. It's hard to bring howitzers or self-propelled guns into play early, since they're so vulnerable to even HMG fire. HT's help get the troops near town in a hurry, but without an advance of foot soldiers, you run into ambushes or zook/schreck attacks. Parking some HT's near the town and then advancing troops for a little recon is also problematic, since any substantial pause in movement or bunching of forces equals arty on your head more often than not.

Advancing on the town over-cautiously with one main force (with a reserve in the setup zone) or two flanking forces seems to unduly expose units to all kinds of problems, not the least of which is arty. Bum-rushing the town itself leads you right into ambushes. It would certainly seem, though, that you need to very quickly find a relatively weak section of the enemy line in or near the town, rapidly gain local superiority, and utilize the same cover and concealment advantages of the buildings that the enemy has. I learned early on that you can't take the town by just temporarily parking on its outskirts and lighting into it with tanks and assault guns.

Thoughts? I'm relatively new at this, but I've gotten to where I usually win by a substantial margin against the AI in defenses and meeting engagements, but assaults are giving me grief, especially under the difficult conditions I've given myself (semi-darkness, high hills) Good learning experiences, though

------------------

Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 11-03-2000).]

[Ron]

Hi, I'll offer some suggestions that have been successful for me.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>30 turns. No intel. 3000 point assaulting force versus 1500 point defensive force.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a large battle for only 30 turns. To carry out an assault of that size properly I think 35-40 turns would be more appropriate. There is still the time pressure but it won't be rushed as with 30 turns which I feel is.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Basic force composition: roughly how much to spend on arty, armor, infantry, transport for the infantry, etc.; also, what basic types of armor (tanks, assault guns, etc.) and troops.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would go with lots of infantry and artillery, you will need the quantity versus the quality. You don't need the best 'type' of infantry, creating a large volume(many sources) of fire is more important. Max out on the arty, I would get one 81mm FO for smoke and the rest in the 105 to 155mm range, mortar FOs can call in fire quicker. Load up on infantry support vehicles as well, scout cars/MG carriers/HTs, again you want a large volume of fire. I would get mostly infantry support tanks also, only a few regular tanks to deal with enemy armour as he probably won't have many.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When to call in arty in relation to the start of the game and the progress of your scouting or adavance. Move the FO's up behind scouts for clear LOS, putting them at risk, or leave them in safety in the back, slowing arty response time and accuracy?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless the map is really restricted, you should have good observation points of the objectives from your start line, if not then secure them. I would place most of my FOs with that in mind as well as in relation to likely enemy positions and your own avenues of appraoch. I wouldn't have them anywhere near your forward troops as they will probably be taking fire. Only move them as required, transported on-board mortars can give you some quick point suppression. If you have a lot of arty then you can prep fire certain locations but keep in mind the effects of arty will be largely wasted if it isn't followed up by infantry. I rarely call in arty when I don't have LOS.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Recommended type of scouting (composition, speed, etc.).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read the scouting ideas on the main forum with interest. I guess it comes down to different styles/philosophies. I never scout so far ahead of main body to put them out of reach of the main body's firesupport. Generally against a good opponent all you will run into is his forward elements which are more than capable of dealing with your scouts. It's also no good to then react because your opponent will have repositioned elsewhere. I will, however, have a few scouts a little ahead to discover barbed wire and AT/AP mine concentrations. Since I'm attacking my force will always be stronger upon contact. I have a plan at the start and I usually follow thru with it because of superior forces at the point of attack.

Here's a generic example of an attack against a village/town in the center of the map. I will concentrate leftcenter or rightcenter and have a light screen on the other flank, you don't want to attack everywhere but only give the appearance of doing so. Plan ahead your avenues of approach, support fire, jump off points, repositionning of forces etc. The key is too always have a large volume of fire able to overwhelm the enemy upon contact. If the terrain isn't in your favor then use smoke to make it so. Keep moving forward, softening up postions with arty/area fire and following thru with your attack, you will take losses but it is important to press on and not get bogged down.

^^^-> VV

|||-> VV

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|||___^^

|||___||__^>

Excuse the poor attempt at graphics Say in this example, I would have 1 company left consisting of 2 platoons forward/1 back plus the bulk of my support, 1 company center consisting of 1 platoon forward/2 back plus support, and one platoon right acting as a screen/feint. The enemy orientation initially will be towards you, by securing the flank first before assaulting the village you will have gained a large advantage. By putting pressure on the center while securing the flank you will prevent your opponent from repositioning his forces/reserves.

That's just a general outline, the details and more importantly the proper coordination are things you need to work out yourself. Hope that helps.

Ron

[Samhain]

Yes, it does, thanks. I just tried a similar QB, though the terrain was a bit more to my advantage. I cleaned up, playing the Germans:

24 casualties (7 KIA)

1 captured

5 vehicles knocked out (of around 20)

Men OK: 168

Score: 84

Allied AI defender:

115 casualties (25 KIA)

28 captured

3 mortars, 2 guns, 3 vehicles knocked out

Men OK: 48

Score: 16

Axis total victory on allied surrender.

I think the point about turn length was very perceptive. I also felt like I was being rushed when practicing QB's like this, so I switched to 35 turns this time, letting me win a few turns early.

The main principles I adopted this time around where, roughly in order:

1) gamey kübelwagen scouting forays

2) rushing up 3 sharpshooters to good observation points for buttoning AFV's and lookout duty.

3) after getting something of an idea what was going on, I started moving up platoons through the woods in standard wedge formations. Meanwhile, heavily tanks took out all enemy vehicles (mainly light, fortunately) from the left flank. A few diversionary AFV's were on the right flank, but the initial advancing force moved up the left-center flank. The key I think, was to only stop in one place for one turn if possible, avoid bunching when possible, and--the big one--start out with forces spread in an arc but within reasonable distance of each other. They then converged as they moved closed on the town. A very advantageous loose formation, since it prevents arty from taking out massed assets on the way in and then concentrates massive firepower once there.

4) Once in the town, I was golden, as I suspected. I had the advantages of the buildings for cover then, but unlike the enemy I had armor to protect the lanes between buildings to cover building-to-building troop crossings.

5) During all this, I called in arty (210 and 105) as needed, sometimes unfortunately without LOS and before troops could immediately take advantage of it, but the 210 is so brutal, that's not a bad tradeoff. 2 81mm mortar halftracks were extremely useful (the German armored Panzer Grenadier heavy weapons platoon is becoming one of my favorite selections.) 2 81mm mortar teams on a back ridge with one of the spotters helped out.

6) I only moved in the second half of my HT's (my reserve, with about a sixth of my infantry firepower--just guessing here, tbh) once I was in the edge of town.

I think the most useful tactics were constant, but measured advance, and the pie wedge convergence of the troops.

------------------

Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 11-03-2000).]

[Guest grunto]

one thing you can use to good effect in a quick battle are vehicles.

if you're us doing an assault, get m8 HMCs in the armored category, then M3A1 halftracks in the vehicle category, then round that out with support weapons and infantry.

in the battle, run all of the vehicles down the edge, then turn sharply at the back corner and run all the way across the back edge.

all of those m8s and m3a1s moving and firing will be quite a sight.

move the infantry up the center and the opposite flank. you might want to buy some antitank guns to hold down any defending vehicle movement on your weak side.

sometimes you can set 4 or 5 m8 hmcs back as a fire base but this can get shelled by defending FOs. also, when fighting enemy armor and guns the m8s are best moving in large groups, so setting up a fixed m8 fire base, while possibly rewarding, is fraught with potential peril.

when assaulting with germans, try lots of 75mm recoilles rifles on jeeps. drive them up to excellent firing positions then dismount the RRs and provide supporting fire for the rest of your attacking force.

a good number of sdkfz 7/1 (quad 20) halftracks are almost always useful in a pitched fight. bring them along to suppress antitank guns and such. the psw234/3 is a good 75mm support weapon, and the stuh 42 is pretty nice too.

if you can tow or otherwise transport 20mm aa guns and 75mm RRs into good firing positions they can help carry the day. use the 20mm aa as your heavy machinegun.

in late war the spw 250/8 gives you a 75mm gun on a halftrack for less than 40 points.

a lot of stuff which works well in a quick battle makes for a less-realistic game than those found in some of the historically-based scenarios which are out there.

andy

[Samhain]

It seems the one real problem with towing and parking RCLs, howitzers, flak guns, etc. while assaulting, is that it limits the mobility of part of your force. I know they're for cover fire and they'll certainly be effective in that role for a while, but then they're arty fodder. In fact, some field artillery, and even SPG's like the Hummel can be knocked out by American HMG fire from halfway across the map.

Another thing I'm leery of is ever sending vehicles near unscouted territory (particularly treelines and buildings) without accompanying infantry leading slightly to help counter all the different AT threats. Sending vehicles as an unescorted group can get you into big trouble, and I think that's what you're suggesting? Still, thanks for the ideas: I want to experiment a lot more with assaults.

------------------

Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR