SteveL4 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 I just started a quick battle (v1.01), axis assault, 1000 pts on a small map. The terrain is hilly but has little cover. I positioned 12 HMGs on top of a hill for covering fire over the entire map and hid all units to start the game. On turn 1 an enemy wooden bunker w/mg opened up on a squad of infantry. On my turn 2 plots I had 5 of the HMGs open up on the bunker. They all fired a short 5 second burst and all ceased fire at the same time. The bunker continued to fire at my advancing infantry. Turn 2 I plotted all 12 HMGs to fire at the bunker again. Again, they all fired a short 5 second burst and ceased fire, all at the same time! (One had a jam but the rest were ok.) I also noticed that although I watched them firing at level 1, they used no ammo! I saved the game before turns 2 and 3 and the same thing happened each time I re-ran the turn. Any idea what's going on here? [ November 23, 2002, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: SteveL4 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL4 Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 To add to my HMG post, LOS was clear, could move over to the bunker and hear the HMG rounds pelting the bunker. Not LOS issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Not a bug. My bet would be that TacAI decided that your shots would do little or no damage and decided to cancel the fire order and save ammo. MGs against a bunker would have very little chance of doing anything I would imagine. What was your range to bunker? [ November 23, 2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Lord Dragon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL4 Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 The range to my HMGs was 710m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 That's definately the TacAI cancelling your order. Even twelve HMG's won't hurt a wooden MG bunker at that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted November 24, 2002 Share Posted November 24, 2002 I once had 4 Maxims take out a 88mm pillbox. Atleast that's what I think it was, there was no one else shooting at hit, and people inside were dying..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL4 Posted November 24, 2002 Author Share Posted November 24, 2002 Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: I once had 4 Maxims take out a 88mm pillbox. Atleast that's what I think it was, there was no one else shooting at hit, and people inside were dying.....This is what I was attempting to do, I realize that killing people through the slits may have only a slim chance, but... if we're simulating reality, as my squads are advancing across a barren map I would like to at least have the option to keep the bunker busy, whatever the odds. Simply calling it "TAC-AI" is a weak way out. Thanks for the response, at least I know it's possible. Unfortunately, no one responded to my information that the HMGs were firing but not using any ammo. Did this for three turns in a row... AND, they all stopped firing at the same time. I know this may not be exciting as the color of a roadwheel being inaccurate, but, I think this is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted November 24, 2002 Share Posted November 24, 2002 Try using area fire directly in front or around the pillbox. That should prove it's the TacAI. Using area fire, they should shoot and continue to shoot at the area. Target a few of them on the pillbox and a few around or in front of the pillbox with area fire. If I'm correct, the MGs that are targeted on the pillbox will fire one burst and stop due to the TacAI and it's decision to halt fire due to lack of damage, while the area fire MG's will continue to fire. Also, remember the ammo count is not an actual bullet count. One quick burst off an MG shouldn't deplete your ammo even if they do it three turns in a row. Let me know what happens. I'm curious now myself. [ November 24, 2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Lord Dragon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted November 24, 2002 Share Posted November 24, 2002 At that range (700+) meters the TacAi wont waste the ammo however your report that no ammo is showing to be expended is odd. Can you send me the save game please along with a recap of the issue you are reporting. Thanks! Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 24, 2002 Share Posted November 24, 2002 Originally posted by Lord Dragon: One quick burst off an MG shouldn't deplete your ammo even if they do it three turns in a row.I have never seen this. In every case I have observed, the ammo count goes down by one for very burst. Do you have definite instances of observed fire not using ammo or are you just guessing? Michael [ November 24, 2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL4 Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lord Dragon: One quick burst off an MG shouldn't deplete your ammo even if they do it three turns in a row.I have never seen this. In every case I have observed, the ammo count goes down by one for very burst. Do you have definite instances of observed fire not using ammo or are you just guessing? Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL4 Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 Originally posted by Lord Dragon: Try using area fire directly in front or around the pillbox. That should prove it's the TacAI. Using area fire, they should shoot and continue to shoot at the area. Target a few of them on the pillbox and a few around or in front of the pillbox with area fire. If I'm correct, the MGs that are targeted on the pillbox will fire one burst and stop due to the TacAI and it's decision to halt fire due to lack of damage, while the area fire MG's will continue to fire. Also, remember the ammo count is not an actual bullet count. One quick burst off an MG shouldn't deplete your ammo even if they do it three turns in a row. Let me know what happens. I'm curious now myself. I tested the issue as you asked... the 5 HMGs that were firing at the bunker ceased fire after 3 bursts, using no ammo. The remaining 6-7 HMGs, using area fire in front of the bunker, continue to fire throughout the turn, expending ammo throughout. If you're interested in the save game files to play around with, I'd be happy to send them to you. I understand why you asked me to do this, for testing purposes, but, thinking about it... if the first 5 HMGs cease fire against the bunker after 3 bursts because of "lack of damage", why would the remaining 7 HMGs continue to fire at a spot of dirt on the map when they cannot possible cause any damage? I guess the point here is, can HMGs cause any damage to this bunker or its occupants? If so, this is a bug. If not, then the Tac-AI should let me waste my ammo on the bunker, same as it does against the spot of open terrain in front of it! Thanks for the response. Steve L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Received the save games and tested them this morning. Sorry Steve but I dont see a problem. I watched both turns and here is what I see. In the first file you have I think 5 or 6 teams targeting the bunker. They all fire one long burst at the very begining of the turn and their ammo goes to 104 (it started at 105). They did not fire again throughout the turn since the TacAI does not think it prudent to waste fire at the bunker at such long range.. In the second file, you have 5 or 6 more teams with orders to shoot as well as the original teams. Again everyone fires at the begining of the turn. Some MG's go to 103 ammo (the ones that fired the turn previously) while the others fire and ammo count drops to 104. One team is jammed and does not fire at all. Perhaps you see something different but all seems fine on my end. Remember, there are more tracers drawn per burst in CMBB than in CMBO, maybe thats what's throwing you off? Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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