Finns vs Germans

[Gary T]

This has probably been answered before but will it be possiblr to design scenario pitting Finns versus German forces?

I'm just reading "Schicksalsweg und Kampf der "Bergschuh"-Division (History of 7. Gebrigs-Division) and there are some excellent maps/sketches/descriptions of the fighting between this division and the Finns as the Germans retreated from Finnland into Norway in the autumn of 1944.

Hopefully the GJ won't be represented as they are in CMBO....

[Traject0ry]

Prolly not as the troops are both considered "axis". Besides the sad German versus Finns action is not worth the effort unless you want to see a lot of burning buildings

-T

[Keke]

It could be quite interesting. Most of the Finnish infantry in `The War of Lappland´ were green (in CM terms), because majority of the battle hardened veterans were demobilized after truce with Soviets.

[Munter]

For a couple of months ago I met two fellow Finns who were just kids in Lappland at the time of the war. They told me that the only people who hated the Germans after the war were the local communists. The other man's father hadn't even painted over their front door after the war, just to annoy the Soviet supporters, as a German officer had written "this house may not be burned" on it.

The people in Lappland were evacuated to Sweden by the German Army in order to avoid any unnecessary casualties. At the same time the Germans tried to save as much of their supplies as possible into Norway with their meager transport resources.

They left a LOT of ammunition and mines behind them, though. The guys I talked with told me that they had an extremely fascinating childhood (their words, not mine). For instance, Nebelwerfer rockets, when ignited horizontally and of course without any parental supervision, were an exciting version of martial lottery: nobody could tell beforehand where those babies finally landed as they had a tendency to richochet just anywhere if they hit a tree or a boulder. And their sound...(again, their words).

The best projectiles for slingshots were bearing balls that came from the German "jumping mines" that obviously had to be deactivated first. If they ever encountered unknown warmaterial, their fathers wanted to see it first to show how to handle them safely.

M

[Tero]

Originally posted by Keke:

It could be quite interesting. Most of the Finnish infantry in `The War of Lappland´ were green (in CM terms), because majority of the battle hardened veterans were demobilized after truce with Soviets.

Are you sure about this ?

They were mostly the younger generation, yes. But most of them had years of combat experience under their belt. Some had to stay on for the duration of their national service even after the war, having fought 5 years in the front. That would make them veteran or better in CM terms, not green.

The demobilization did concern the majority if the army. They had to demobilize the army from the peak number of 500 000 to 35 000 (standing army strenght during peace time) in a matter of months while conducting combat actions against the Germans who numbered (IIRC) over 200 000.

But of course you know all this.

[Keke]

My grandfather, who had fought in Taipale during the Winter War and Rukajärvi area during the Continuation War, took part in the Tornio invasion. So there were real veterans amongst the troops, but as he recall it, there were lot of problems with the fighting ability of the troops with no former battle experience.

Well, then again considering the level of training in the Finnish Army, they might have been regular-level soldiers, at least.

[Ari Maenpaa]

Not even all Finnish people understand that although the Germans burned Lapland down, they were essential for the survival of Finland. Only those 200 000 German troops in Northern Finland made it possible for the Finns to concentrate enough their own forces to Karelia during the critical moments of the Soviet offensive in summer '44 (4th strategic, like keke pointed out earlier).

Yep, the Germans burned Lapland, but I think that was only microscopic damage compared to what the Soviets would have done, had they succeeded in the breakthrough attempt.

And personally I'm not very interested to see 'Finns vs Germans'-scenarios in CMBB, although that phase of war was also essential for the survival of Finland.

Ari

[Bruno Weiss]

What about the Ukrainiums versus the Soviets?

[Berlichtingen]

There was nothing 'low quality' about the Finns that faced the Germans... the problem was that neither side wanted to fight the other. The Germans were more motivated as the alternitive was long winter nights in Siberia

[Munter]

My uncle was "fighting" in Lapland as a conscript soldier. According to him there wasn't any significant action but some small scale scouting and patrolling. They merely followed the Germans as they retreated to the North.

In Rovaniemi railway yard they hid away weapons and ammunition in case of a suspected Soviet invasion. Everybody knew where the REAL enemy was. He did come home with a fine Mauser k98 which my father nowadays owns.

So no, that particular theatre of war is of no interest to me. They were our Waffenbrueder when times were bad.

M

[Keke]

I would prefer an option for free unit and nation choise. With that, one could fe make `extremely´ balanced scenarios for tournaments.

[Gen-x87H]

I have always wanted the ability for opponents to be of the same nation.

It could setup some interesting battles going against your own kind.

Gen