Soviet Armor Practice.

[Maxx]

After getting my a$$ handed to me by Abbott I decided to setup soviet armor training scenarios. I've prolly played 50 of these, and for what its worth, this is what I have learned.

First, set these up yourself. If you play Soviet side alot you really have to master the core 3 T-34/76s vs. 1 tiger or 1 panther engagement.

500 point ME QB on a random map. Buy both sides units yourself. Buy, for the meeting engagement,

GE:

1 platoon inf

1 panther or tiger

SU:

1 platoon inf

3 T34/76's (they cost about the same as 1 cat)

Now mount those infantry on the T34's, spread them out, and head for concealment around the middle of the map. You will get there first. Dismount infantry and get a sound contact on the cat.

You will never win a frontal slugfest. The plan is to engage the cat with 2 or more t34's simultaneously, from the side, or better yet, the side, rear and front.

One T34 may have to be bait. If you cannot master using the terrain to get into postion, you're gonna lose. It's that simple. As the Russian player you don't have the luxury of hitting home runs with frontal shots. Use the fast forward button to save time, and play a new QB over and over until you can kill that cat almost every time out.

Some critical points:

1) Always.. ALWAYS use available infantry to button up the cat before you make the 'strike'. This is huge as it may give you 1 or 2 extra shots before he can see you. A rifle platoon at less than 250m does the trick.

2) On the strike turn (the turn you are moving all three into kill shot position), look at the command delays! Make sure, by using pause, that all 3 (or 2) T34's will be on target at the SAME TIME. If not, your odds of winning the encounter drop significantly.

3) For this to work, you need a map with at least moderate trees, or a village, or modest hills... anything to move your T34's without getting hammered.

4) Don't be afraid to go deep. Once you get sound contact, use the strength of the T34 (speed) to plunge deep into his side of the map (and hide there).

5) The ideal firing position is 120 degree phase difference between all 3 T34's. In other words, hit from both sides and rear, or both sides and front. A postion where the cat will hopelessly try to turret turn on you - and no matter which way, he's screwed. You will have to creep up your T34's so they all can be on target together.

The QB's last about 10 mins each, so you can improve pretty quick. These will teach you to read terrain pretty well. It's all about terrain. The thing is, in my opinion, he has to play this game, cause if he retreats his armor, he (the GE player) is leaving his INF to get mauled by one of your tanks, and the VL will be lost.

I played a few of these with sharpshooters, but it got to be too easy. Once he is permanently buttoned, your job is much easier.

Also, if the terrain won't allow a concealed move, from cover to cover, don't do it. The Panther is excellent at hitting moving armor. I'm not sure about Tigers, but my guess is they are as well.

[ November 27, 2002, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

[MrNoobie]

this is good, how do you use the command delays correctly i can never get this right. i usually lose all of my armor by one turn

[Maxx]

Originally posted by MrNoobie:

this is good, how do you use the command delays correctly i can never get this right. i usually lose all of my armor by one turn

Gotta look for them on each unit. So it might go like this: On the strike turn, I issue 'fast' orders to all three tanks, so they all have nice juicy shots. Then, I look again at all 3 T34's, noting the command delay of each. Now if the distance they each travel is nearly the same, use the pause key (P) on the tanks to make their delays roughly equal, or if one has to travel a bit more then the other 2, use a 10 sec (or more) pause on the other 2. This will assure they all show up at nearly the same time.

BTW, those T34's mods you did are great, MrNoobie - thanks

[ November 27, 2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ]

[Maxx]

As an additional trainer, sub out the 3 T34/76s for 4 SU 76s. I have not had one reverse out of a side or rear shot on a tiger or panther yet. Regular experience level crews. Takes a few more shots, but if the GE cat is buttoned, its all still good.

[Tigrii]

The major problem with this strategy is that if you increase the numbers to actual battle scale, say, two Cat platoons and six T-34 platoons, it's a lot harder because the ratio of force to space goes way up and you can't zoom around very well without being confronted toe-to-toe by the Cats. Also, they can cover each others flanks.

[Maxx]

Originally posted by Tigrii:

The major problem with this strategy is that if you increase the numbers to actual battle scale, say, two Cat platoons and six T-34 platoons, it's a lot harder because the ratio of force to space goes way up and you can't zoom around very well without being confronted toe-to-toe by the Cats. Also, they can cover each others flanks.

I agree, it's only purpose is to A) Ingrain dynamic movement principles as soviet player, proficiency in guiding several AFV's to target simultaneously and C) Deep map manuever using terrain for concealment.

However, I still am quite sure the only way to win with a T34/76 is the flanking shot. No matter how many platoons of cats exist, its the only viable option that I can see. Frontal shot kills are extremely rare.

[Nippy]

Don't forget that Soviet on map 81mm Mortars can help alot with their direct fire smoke rounds. They come in pretty handy since Soviet tanks lack smoke shells and FO's take forever to call down smoke missions.

[PiggDogg]

Maxx,

Thanks. Nice post & your work is appreciated.

Tigrii,

You are most correct. If the forces are proportionately increased, the ratio of forces to space goes way up.

Any German player (when the Germans have uber tanks, mid 43 onward) &, for that matter, any Russian player (when the Russians have uber tanks, 41 to mid 42) worth his salt will cover his tanks' flanks.

In short, when either side has uber tanks, the uber side uses good and proper tactics by playing coservatively, taking advantage of slopes and folds in the ground to go hull down, & covering his uber tanks' flanks. If he does this, the uber commander should generally win.

Of course, this uber tank superiority with proper tactics makes meeting engagements on wide open maps very difficult, if not impossible, for the unter side. This is because the force ratio will be nowhere near 3 unters to 1 uber, and those wide open vistas should cause massive death upon the unters.

Thus, if one plays normal MEs and has unter tanks, pray for close terrain, night, and/or lots of hills. If the terrain is too open in a standard ME, the unter side might request quarter.

Just a thought.

Cheers, Richard

[ November 28, 2002, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: PiggDogg ]