Michael Dorosh Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Ok, I had no idea it was this complicated. The first two are easy to figure out, but can someone tell me if I've gotten the third correct? The war in Russia started with 3 Army Groups. Army Group North remained as such until Jan 1945 when it was renamed Army Group Kurland. Disbanded 5 Apr 1945. Army Group Centre remained as such until renamed Army Group North on 26 Jan 1945. Surrendered May 1945. Army Group Don created 21 Nov 1942, renamed Army Group South 12 Feb 1943, renamed again Army Group North Ukraine 4 Apr 44, renamed again Army Group A 28 Sep 1944, then merged with Army Group South and renamed Army Group Centre 26 Jan 1945. Surrendered May 1945. Is that correct? Finally Army Group South split in two in Jul 1942. Army Group B served in Russian until transferred to Italy in Mar 1943. Army Group A was renamed Army Group South Ukraine in Mar 1944. Then renamed Army Group South in Sep 1944. Then merged with Army Group A in January 1945 and renamed Army Group Center. See above. Yes, I have web searched with google, visited the Third Reich Fact Book and Feldgrau.com but none of this confirms whether or not Army Group A and Army Group South actually merged. Can anyone point me to a source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldmarshall Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Army group kurland was also part of army group Vistula in 1945 under Henricci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Fieldmarshall, you are wrong on that. AG Kurland was always an independent AG (the highest field formation in the Wehrmacht). The old AG Centre (or parts of that) became AG North in the last weeks of the war, when it fought in East Prussia and Pommerania. The remainder (and mass) of it became AG Vistula, which kept that name to the end I believe, even when they were fighting on the Oder. Regarding AG South Ukraine, there was not a lot left of it that could be rescued from the Maelstrom of Romania in August/September 1944. Less a question of merger I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatpr Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 At the start of Barbarossa there were three army groups North, South, and Center. Army Group South in 1942 split into Group A, and South. Later 43-44 there was much reorganizing that's difficult to track. Erickson does it pretty well in Stalingrad to Berlin. The Arctic theater was controlled by the Norway Command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 31, 2002 Author Share Posted July 31, 2002 Originally posted by gatpr: At the start of Barbarossa there were three army groups North, South, and Center. Army Group South in 1942 split into Group A, and South. Later 43-44 there was much reorganizing that's difficult to track. Erickson does it pretty well in Stalingrad to Berlin. The Arctic theater was controlled by the Norway Command.Seeing as I don't have that book, any chance of a hand here? Kinda why I posted... Thanks for the tip Andreas. The two websites I consulted, in addition to my printed references, say that Heeresgruppe Südukraine was again renamed Heeresgruppe Sud, but that Armeegruppe "A" was also "reformed" as Heeresguppe Sud, so I thought perhaps it was a merger. Do we have any definite idea datewise on when Heeresgruppe Sud disbanded, surrendered or simply dissolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Just done some digging around (long live Google, so take all this with a grain of salt). There were also AGs E & F, from the Balkans, who after their retreat through Yugoslavia defended Budapest (although E may have gotten stuck in Yugoslavia at least in part). Also AG North Ukraine and Centre were combined in June 1944 (by which time, to all intents and purposes AG Center was pretty much history). Schoerner was the last GOC of AG Centre and it dissolved in Czechoslovakia. AG South made through Austria to the lines of the US Army. I don't think any of these went through formal surrender procedures, but am not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 I got some info from the German website Lexikon der Wehrmacht For all of you not familar with German I will give you a short version of it: Heeresgruppe A (renamed 22.06.41) Heeresgruppe Süd (split 09.07.42) Heeresgruppe A and Heeresgruppe B Heeresgruppe A (renamed 30.03.44) Heeresgruppe Südukraine (nearly wiped out after 20.08.44) Heeresgruppe Süd (renamed 04.45) Heeresgruppe Ostmark Heeresgruppe B (split 09.02.43 and parts in) Heeresgruppe Mitte and Heeresgruppe Süd Heeresgruppe Don (took parts of B and renamed 12.02.43) Heeresgruppe Süd (renamed 25.03.44) Heeresgruppe Nordukraine (renamed 23.09.44) Heeresgruppe A (renamed 25.01.45) Heeresgruppe Mitte I hope I got everything right Have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 1, 2002 Author Share Posted August 1, 2002 Originally posted by Wassermann: I got some info from the German website Lexikon der Wehrmacht For all of you not familar with German I will give you a short version of it: Heeresgruppe A (renamed 22.06.41) Heeresgruppe Süd (split 09.07.42) Heeresgruppe A and Heeresgruppe B Heeresgruppe A (renamed 30.03.44) Heeresgruppe Südukraine (nearly wiped out after 20.08.44) Heeresgruppe Süd (renamed 04.45) Heeresgruppe Ostmark Heeresgruppe B (split 09.02.43 and parts in) Heeresgruppe Mitte and Heeresgruppe Süd Heeresgruppe Don (took parts of B and renamed 12.02.43) Heeresgruppe Süd (renamed 25.03.44) Heeresgruppe Nordukraine (renamed 23.09.44) Heeresgruppe A (renamed 25.01.45) Heeresgruppe Mitte I hope I got everything right Have funOutstanding, thanks very much to all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 1, 2002 Author Share Posted August 1, 2002 Does this look reasonably accurate then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Now lemme see, Heeresgruppe A, begat Heeresgruppe Sud, who begat Herresgruppe B, and so forth. Which, if I understand this correctly would make Heeresgruppe Mitte the GreatGrandgruppe of Heeresgruppe A, and Heeresgruppe Ostmark the Greatgruppeuncle of Heeresgruppe B. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Does this look reasonably accurate then?In the absence of a flowchart or Ganttchart, I think yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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