boyrecon Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Saw this thread but can't locate it now. Yep, definitely ex-Waffen SS personnel ended up in Indo-China in the late 40's/early 50's as part of the Legion Etrange. No big surprise, as "La Legion" does not ask questions. Bear in mind that in '45 Japanese POW's were re-armed and saw duty in that area for the allies. There is a biography available in English of a Waffen SS Officer who saw service on the Eastern and Western fronts, and later in Indo-China for the Frogs. Can't remember what its called/who its by, but it was available in the 70's in paperback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 I've read the thread you mentioned, and although I have not mentioned anything at the time, I'm beginning to be interested in the "Legion". Since I am planning to make the military my career, I am looking for a unit or branch of the military to join. I am Russian by origin, and currently reside in the U.S.A. I've thought about the Marines or the Army, but I'm looking for a little more, well, action. Call me crazy, stupid or even suicidal, but I wish to join the armed forces to do what armed forces were originally created for - to fight, not to sit around as the U.S.A.F pounds some backwards country with countless billions of $$$ worth of bombs. I know it is considered of the most crucial importance to save lives in this modern age, unlike only decades back. I've heard the Legion is a very hard unit to get into, and thus compromised of the Elite which see lots of action and danger. I would like to know of any websites or literature where I can obtain more information on this unit. Can I join? Do I need experience in other branches of the military before I can apply? Etc. I would appreciate any replies, and thanks in advance! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Commissar, Try reading 'A Mouthful of Rocks', an eventful biography, forget the author's name, of an Englishman who joined the Foreign Legion. I think it was published about fifteen or twenty years ago, give or take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobdeutschland Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Look, Commish, If your for real just join Army/marines as infantry then try out for the many hardcore units out there, SF, Delta, Navy seals, etc..they are always looking for guys willing to kill/die, trust me, you'll get lots of "action" in those units. OR maybe after sucking the mud for a few years while trying to enter one of these Elite units or simply breaking one bone too many during your 5th shot at Hellgate 3...you may not want to be a killer anymore. The choice is yours. Good luck. ------------------ "Far better it is To dare mighty things... Then to take rank with Those poor, timid spirits Who know neither Victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt 1899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Thanks Joe Private, I will check out that book if I can find it. Grobdeutschland, Forgive my military-terms ignorance, but what exactly is Hellgate 3? Thanks again! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobdeutschland Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 The SF "school" is broken up into phases, which are referred to as Hellgate 1, 2, 3, etc...The course is one year long & at the last hellgate the SF wanna-be's have to act like real SF'ers & parachute into a "foreign country" (somewhere in the carolinas) & help the local rebellion (82 airborne & some other units at bragg) succeed against their oppressors (82 airborne). Anyways, at this hellgate is where you really feel like you've gone to hell & the do or die standard set by the cadre really separates the crazy brave from the phony tough...little sleep, food, & constant humping w/huge packs will wear down anyone. Sorry for rambling on, but looking back & thinking about it always makes me wanna blab I was a member of the "rebellion" & it was the best 3 weeks (felt like 10) of training I've ever had...those SF guys have lots of heart & they know their ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Thanks again, Grobdeutschland! Sounds like a real challenge, this unit. May I ask where you would go to apply for this after you served in the regular armed forces for a certain amount of time? Is there a test you must pass just to get in to the course itself? What sort of standards does one have to meet? Thanks for your great responces! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobdeutschland Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Too much info for me to give ya, plus it's always changing. Just dial 411 & ask for the # of the US Army recruiter in your city. They are looking for troops left & right, so you should be rolling in the mud by summer. Just make it clear to them that you wanna be a snake eater (SF). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 26, 2000 Share Posted December 26, 2000 Just to get back on subject a little, it turns out that not only did ex-Waffen SS personnel show up in the French Foreign Legion, some of them also went to work for us. Their personnel either continued in the Legion and went on to Algeria, or they became part of the 60s-70s SF community for the United States. Basically, these were guys who had been Hitler Jugen at age 14, and had been professional soldiers ever since. It was ALL they knew how to do. So the Legion was the natural place for a lot of these veterans to go... One thing to point out, Commissar: Military service is not a picnic. In addition, since the United States Armed Forces are NOT at war with anybody, you won't have that much opportunity to go kill total strangers. You really want to get shot at and enjoy cold wet mud and death? Go and join the Russian Armed Forces... *shrug* You want to join a little fantasy of "being a man" and killing people? Go work in a Hollywood movie or join the Legion and put up with crappy pay, worse officers, poor equipment, and morally "sketchy" conflicts. Join a PROPER military for one of these specific reasons:<UL TYPE=SQUARE> <LI>Wish to defend the State <LI>Wish to protect innocents And that's about it, man... Don't WISH to go to war. Veterans NEVER do. ------------------ Honor, Duty, Courage. Valhalla awaits you, honorable warrior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobdeutschland Posted December 27, 2000 Share Posted December 27, 2000 I agree with I/O 100%, but I felt it was best to let Commish decide for himself. I always said...that I have no desire to kill anyone, however, my duty is to close with & engage the enemy. This I would do as a professional, not as a killer. Is there a difference? I think so. The enemy is trained/motivated to win, & so am I. We should not forget why the US Army exist: To DETER war or, if deterrence fails, to fight & win wars. Yes, Yes, I know that's not how it always is or ends up! But that's why I'm Soldier, b/c I beleive in what I do. It feels good to know you've helped someone, regardless of politics. ------------------ "Far better it is To dare mighty things... Then to take rank with Those poor, timid spirits Who know neither Victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt 1899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbroe Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Hey Comm been they done that and got the 3-505 batt tee shirt! It was what I thought I wanted too.But 6 years,of being a look good for the dog and pony show of Ft Bragg,sit in the barrack pull detail all the damn time,jump out your ass bull**** got old. you get hurt, and they forget about the good things you done for the unit, and you become a ****bag. So if you want to hoor grunt and jump out planes with a 115 lbs ruck,go airbrone.If you want more go to an sf recruiter and go throw selection,and after that their is delta "best of best"But when people join that's what they all want,but so few make in one peace. I'LL GET OFF MY SOAP BOX NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Kemp Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 The name of the book requested at the start of this tread is "Devi's Guard", by George Robert Elford. It was published in 1972 by Dell. BTW the nature of the Legion has changed a lot in the last 40 years. After they lost the coup against de Gaulle (and they ran out of Germans) the way things were run changed a good deal. Even so the legion "wastes men". Not a good place to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schulz Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Commish- being in the Air Force i know folks would laugh for me to give any advice but I joined to be in the Special Forces. And after quaifing through all the physical trials 8 years ago I was discharged because of my eyesight.(one of the worst days of my life.) As a matter of fact the Air Force has two seperate groups (Combat Control, Pararescue) Vietnam vets may know well of the pararescuemen as they were the soldiers who went in after downed pilots deep in country from hueys. Anyway my point is every branch of armed services has there own form of Special Ops. I believe an Army Ranger is required Sgt. Rank prior to application, Then there is the cream of the crop Delta Force, (yes it does exist). Marines I do believe Recon? Not sure on that.....Anyone. Most notorious is Navy Seals. All these SF groups go through what in the Air Force is called PIPELINE.....now 15 months of training. Yes they do train together....from diving school in Florida to Survival training (P.O.W. training) here at Fairchild AFB WA. I am by far no x-pert but I can tell you the foreign legion is by far no way to go......It is for the sort that have nowhere to go and nothing to lose. I wish you the best of luck in your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoot Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 Sorry to return to the topic, but, boyrecon, you'll find that most of the dirty tricks employed by first the OSS and it's later incarnation, the CIA, were learned from ex-SS expatriates as well. There were former SS instructors at the CIA's School of the Americas up through the early 80's. It should also be noted that most of the ex-SS types employed by our government were indeed war criminals. They were actively sought and recruited prior to any appearance before the War Crimes Tribunal and granted full immunity without prejudice or further recrimination for their cooperation. Clubfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 Sheer practicality overrode morality in that case, as well it should have. They were too valuable a resource to kill off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Kemp Posted January 1, 2001 Share Posted January 1, 2001 My Warrent Officer (A senior NCO in the Canadian Forces) was ex Hitler Youth. The guy was amazing. I once saw him cut a figure 11 target (upright human) in half at 150 meters with a 30 cal (BAR) while he was standing upright and firing from the hip in full auto. He claims he shot a Mustang down that way, and I believe him. He could out walk, out fight, out shoot anybody in the regiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clubfoot: It should also be noted that most of the ex-SS types employed by our government were indeed war criminals. They were actively sought and recruited prior to any appearance before the War Crimes Tribunal and granted full immunity without prejudice or further recrimination for their cooperation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks for the info Clubfoot - and I never believed my friend when he told me of his uncle riding an M113 through Viet Nam with a Swastika flag flying on the antenna and wearing his German war medals. Amazing, but not that surprising really. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobdeutschland Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Just a few more facts: Many Nazi war criminals were tried & most were convicted; however, U.S. intelligence agencies did conspired to reduce many of the sentences in return for their help in the new war againt communism. Operation Paper Clip was a deliberate program by the U.S. Military that brought about 1,600 Nazi scientists to the U.S. to work on various projects. U.S. & British officials wanted to investigate the Soviets for the Katyn massacre, but the Soviets kept that incident off the agenda. BOTTOM LINE: "Justice", like so many times before in history took a back seat to "National Security" & politics. ------------------ "Far better it is To dare mighty things... Then to take rank with Those poor, timid spirits Who know neither Victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt 1899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobdeutschland Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Also, there are too many things to list so I'll just add one more fun fact on the "SS all over the damn place" post Argentina was a popular havens for war criminals, many of whom were aided by ODESSA, an organization of SS men set up to aid them. ------------------ "Far better it is To dare mighty things... Then to take rank with Those poor, timid spirits Who know neither Victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt 1899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATguy Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Last I hear there was a recruiting station for the French Foreign legion in San Francisco. Also it is comprised of mostly ex-milatary types who in "my" opinion can not function in a civilian society. Just my opinion and something to weigh heavy upon since you end your US citizenship and belong to France after that.... just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 By joining the French Foreign Legion, you disavow any and all ties and unions to all nationalities and agencies. After a certain number of years of active service, (I think it's 5 years now) you are eligible to become a citizen of France. Until there, it appears you're stuck into limbo... weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoot Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 ODESSA indeed, and that ball was set rolling by ol' Otto Skorzeny. He himself spent time in Argentina where it is widely rumored he had an affair with Juan Peron's wife, Eva. When she died, she left him a pile of cash in the form of the Eva Peron Foundation. Clubfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepitis Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 Just saw a programme on British TV on Sunday night about a group of ukrainians who fought for the SS under the name of the Galician Division (or something like that).At the end of the war 1200 of these men were allowed to enter the U.K.,where,apparently,many of them still live.This was despite the fact that their unit actively assisted the EinsatzGruppen in what was described in the programme as "pacifying" two Polish villages in retaliation for the killing by partisans of an SS officer.They were responsible for the murder of over 300 men,women and children (some as young as 3 years old)during this one incident alone.However the release of previously secret British Govt documents showed that the British were prepared to turn a blind eye to this in return for assistance from the units members in setting up covert groups to infiltrate Russian territory during the cold war!It seems political expediency beats morality hands-down any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 Practicality > Morality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saru3000 Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 I read an article a few years back and IIRC it said that ,yes,the legion is hard to get into but that they mostly build roads and other engineering projects in various former colonies.It also stated that one of its biggest problems was keeping the men in shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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