Was Pzgr 40 really that much better?

[offtaskagain]

I just took a look through Pz IV universe. On the gun data it lists Pzgr 40 for the KWK 40 gun as 366mm point blank. The rest of the ranges are still in the 200s. I could've sworn the penetration of Pzgr. 40 for Panthers and Tigers was only around 30 mm higher than 39. Is this really true?

[JasonC]

I certainly don't buy that number. Sounds like a number for Pz Gr 40/43 from an 88L71. Perhaps the site maker was confused by the common designation? All HVAP sub-caliber tungsten ammo was "Pz Gr 40", but that doesn't specify the round unless the gun type is added. Most numbers I've seen for the long 75mm KwK give the PzGr 40 round about 25% more penetration at close range, falling to little better than the standard AP at around 1 km. (The much lighter shell has higher initial velocity, but loses energy to air resistence far more rapidly).

For the 50L60 it makes more of a difference - up to double at point blank - but again no appreciable difference at 1 km. Making it important only for close range fighting. Under 500 yards, having PzGr 40 instead of 39 ought to make an important difference for Pz IIIs with the long 50mm. At short ranges, 37mm ATGs will be marginally more effective if they have it. I wouldn't expect any other large effects.

It was quite rare for the larger guns, too. The Germans made 1.4 million PzGr40 rounds for 37mm, and 1.3 million for 50mm, but less than 50K for 75mm and less than 6K for 88mm. It was more a way of extending the useful field life of the older, smaller PAK than a way of boosting AP performance of the better guns. Which were sufficient for most threat vehicles at most of the ranges it might help at, anyway.

[MajorBooBoo]

Its easily explained. You are looking at numbers for steel and not armor. If you go to that website and read close, you will see that they list armor penetration, concrete and steel. Steel not being much compared to hardened armor.

[Mattias]

Well spotted Major, the actual figure given being 176 mm at point blank range with undisclosed slope (the figures points towards vertical plates though).

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On the subject of "40" grenades I was intrigued to read a report, included in Jentz's "Panzertruppen", that states that the Pzgr. 40 ammunition for the 5 cm L/60 gun was no longer used as the shell case almost invariably stuck in the chamber after the round was fired.

When it happened the jam could only be cleared by exiting the tank and pushing the shell case back into the tank by inserting the cleaning rod, or some such, into the barrel.

M.