_Axe_ Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Hi all. Just finished Juergen Thorwald's Defeat in the East, also published as Flight in Winter. (Okay, okay. I read the abridged English translation. Jeez, you grogs... ) Now, I know the answer to this question, but I'll ask anyway...Seeing as civilian refugees played such a large part in the Eastern campaign, especially in the winter of 44-45, wouldn't leaving them out take away from CMBB to some degree? Answer: You're kidding right? This is a COMBAT simulator. Besides, what could hundreds of thousands of non-armed units add to the game? Reply: Well, for one, the refugees surely affected operations. Hundreds of thousands of them -- not to mention horse, sleighs and wagons -- clogging roads and occupying houses would have neccesitated some changes in tactical thinking, wouldn't they have? Answer: Oh sod off you late-to-the-game trouble maker. Jason P.S. Not to be too mushy or anything (don't want to get in Madmatt's bad books just yet) but I wanted to say this is a fantastic community. Helpful, informative and usually gives you a laugh at the end of the day, when you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Hehe, if it makes ya feel better i got a laugh out of your post Really i think the answer you are looking for is "Out of the scope of CM" In a tactical sense i can't see the point in Refugees, it would be to hard to admister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I think civilians would offer a terrific tactical challenge; the TacAI would have troops refuse to fire when civilians are in the way,etc. - you would have to get your troops into decent firing positions, and close enough to buildings to ensure no civilians are hurt. If I were to program this, I would not give point penalties for killing civilians, I would just have the TacAI refuse to do anything that endangered them, except in desperation - ie firing a bazooka in an enclosed space with civilians inside. I would allow limited spotting by civilians in "friendly" countries, also - lots of stuff to think about for the engine rewrite. What other game besides Muzzle Velocity has simulated civilians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Originally posted by Stixx: Really i think the answer you are looking for is "Out of the scope of CM"Stixx has it right (even if he did misspell 'administer' ). CM is about what is going on right at the FEBA. Any civies around they're hiding in the basement if they have any sense. The kind you are thinking of would be in the operational zone, or even further back. Having some civilians around, especially in the urban scenarios would add some color, but like Stixx says, it would probably take a program unto itself just to control them. I think Charles has enough on his hands just trying to satisfy all the Panzer grogs without piling this on as well. Ask again in about six years. Michael [ July 04, 2002, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffsmith Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 One reason civilians are being left out is probably because putting them in would mean having to accurately depict mass casualties Not something, I think, that anyone wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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