Joques Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Hi, I'm currently playtesting a Stalingrad scenario, and I must say going up against those Russian SMG-armed squads is like ramming your head into a wall. Example: I had a company of rifle squads behind a wall (65m away from the building), ready to lay down suppressing fire while the panzerpioneers got up close an personal. I hit "GO", and within two seconds my ENTIRE company of VETERAN rifle squads are at least shaken, and several are panicking. Ok, so maybe 65m is too close. (Or am I placing too much trust in Walls when it comes to protection? Or am I even using them correctly? My troops looked like they were embedded inside the wall and their location said "wall". That's when you get the cover, right?) Thing is, if you don't get fairly close, then the Russians will simply keep concealment and it's a stalemate. Even if you do run a sacrificial halfsquad up close and the Russians start firing (and it isn't even a given that the AI will bother firing at a pesky scouting halfsquad - excellent AI programming there by the way), you don't even have a full minute to blast him with all you've got before he gets concealment again. And you can't just stand back and area fire at every location where you suspect there are Russians. You'll run out of ammo before Turn 15. So there you have it. Does anybody have a clue about how to evict those pesky Russians? (And BTW - were the Russians the only ones to have dedicated SMG squads?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Originally posted by Joques: Or am I placing too much trust in Walls when it comes to protection? Or am I even using them correctly? My troops looked like they were embedded inside the wall and their location said "wall". That's when you get the cover, right?Walls offer limited protection against targets at the same height. A squad located in a tall building on the opposite side of the wall will obviously shoot over it with ease. And no, you don't have to be "on" the wall, but behind it (to my knowledge). And BTW - were the Russians the only ones to have dedicated SMG squads?Wehrmacht has dedicated volksgrenadier SMG squads by the end of the war, and Jaeger platoons armed mainly with SMG's a bit earlier. The troop purchasing screen offers detailed data on the squad's armaments. What comes to the scenario that you're describing: unless you have some serious armor/artillery backup, flanking might be the only option. Routing troops out of buldings usually takes hefty crossfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joques Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: Walls offer limited protection against targets at the same height. A squad located in a tall building on the opposite side of the wall will obviously shoot over it with ease.The SMG's were in fact on ground level. Still... Is it a fact that height advantage will negate Wall protection? Seems odd to me. If I'm crouching behind a wall, they'd have to have a pretty darn great height advantage over me to negate the protection. Could somebody confirm this? What comes to the scenario that you're describing: unless you have some serious armor/artillery backup, flanking might be the only option. Routing troops out of buldings usually takes hefty crossfire.No arty, no armor. No smoke. I do have a coupla flamers, but getting close enough to use them is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Being on the wall is a very exposed position. Try to be behind the wall. And as Bone Vulture said, the wall doesn't do much good when you are being shot at from a higher elevation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Originally posted by Joques: The SMG's were in fact on ground level. Still... Is it a fact that height advantage will negate Wall protection? Seems odd to me. If I'm crouching behind a wall, they'd have to have a pretty darn great height advantage over me to negate the protection. Could somebody confirm this?I'm pretty sure. Wall offer at least excellent concealment (again, depends on the elevation of the opposite side), troops can hide in mere grass behind the wall, and remain unspotted. Obviously, the best place for your troops is in a well-covered terrain (woods, rough) just behind the wall. No arty, no armor. No smoke. I do have a coupla flamers, but getting close enough to use them is another matter. Do you have MG's, or squads with plenty of ammunition? You could try suppressing the buildings with dense area fire, just long enough to get the flame throwers in position. If you manage to pull this off, simply torch the building: the defending troops will bail immediately. And if you have your troops in flanking positions, they commies will bail straight into your rifle fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 If the location says 'wall' (and the unit looks to be inside it) the troops are in fact sitting on the wall. A very exposed position with virtually zero cover. You want the troops to be near the wall, but behind it (the location will still be 'open ground' or whatever). Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Besides being *behind* the wall, you'll also want to be in good cover. CM has the unforunate property of having troops behind a wall in open ground (or any poor cover) not realize that when they get pinned from fire that is coming level to the ground, when they hunker down their exposure goes to 0% b/c of the wall's protection. So instead of staying put so that when they take too much fire, they duck and get protected, they think "I'm in open ground, we must retreat to better cover." So try to put your troops in woods or rough or anything better than open ground when using a wall for cover. If your on defense, you can put foxholes there, which should keep your troops happy under fire, even in open ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnuif Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 <Useless Post> Get an eviction notice (Ctrl-Shift-E IIRC) </Useless Post> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joques Posted October 31, 2002 Author Share Posted October 31, 2002 Ok, y'all were right about the walls thing. I tried again and set up my troops (BTW not veteran like I said, but regulars, oops...) behind the walls. I just thought they needed to have "wall" in their location window to benefit from teh cover, honest mistake Of course now the SMG squads weren't as invincible as they first seemed. I mean, they pack a wallop at short range, but they can be taken out. So the whole point of my thread, it seems, has evaporated. Oh well, thanks for the tips, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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