PlatCmdr Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 First off, I'm very much happy with CMAK and not a penny was wasted, but I do have one gripe that is more related to the present engine than this particular game. Something I've experienced in CMBB has now resurfaced in CMAK during my play of the scenario, "Defense of Trig 29." SLIGHT SPOILER ahead... > > > > > > > > > > > > >My 2 and 6 pounder AT guns made a nice go of it against the Axis assault, but upon finally running out of ammo, they could do little more than holler insults at the enemy. Self preservation would dictate that these 5 team gunners abandon their hard to tow gun rather than await the close infantry and tank assault of the fast approaching enemy. Instead, these guys seem determined to hold on to the big guns. This then results in either capture or death instead of what could have been a clean get away if only I had a button which disengaged man from machine. Perhaps something better handled by the new engine, but just thought I'd throw it out there. <edited to include> The problem of course is not limited to just the above, but applies to on-board mortar crews, MG teams, and all maned guns (fixed and movable). [ December 09, 2003, 04:26 AM: Message edited by: PlatCmdr ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAsta_KFC Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I guess you cold always mortar your own AT guns to make the crew abandon them Mortars seem to take them out even from a non-direct hit and usually doesn't cause grevious casualties. Seriously though, i do hope that 'Abandon Gun' command will be in CMx2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by MAsta_KFC: i do hope that 'Abandon Gun' command will be in CMx2 And re-man, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Perhaps the game should make it very likely that the gun is abandoned when the ammo is spent. Since there is no resupply in the game, there is no point in hanging around. The main problem would be campaigns. Since there is no remanning of weapons, its probably best that the game model the crew becoming pinned when under fire. Hopefully, a pinned ATG in a trench will stick around till it either becomes depleted or teh gun is KO'd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Imagine this: You have your machinegun and gun crews hiding in a bunker at turn 1. Turn 1 : Prep arty barrage starts falling. Turn 4 : You give order to crews to man the mg's and guns. Turn 7 : Enemy units are advancing and your mg's and guns (maybe a gun is knocked out dut to mechanical failure offcourse) can engage them. That would be nice.... Monty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I think that in the new engine, there should be a large victory point loss for abandoned weapons; in the British and Canadian artillery, for example, the guns themselves were considered the equal of an infantry regiment's Colours - not to be abandoned and left for the enemy. Spiking the guns would be acceptable to satisfy honour, but your enemy should get victory points for this as well. I don't think gun crew would just up and run away normally - if they could have fallback foxholes just like the infantry, so the crew could run back into this position (this was done in real life) that would be ok too, without considering the gun "abandoned". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlatCmdr Posted December 9, 2003 Author Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I think that in the new engine, there should be a large victory point loss for abandoned weapons; in the British and Canadian artillery, for example, the guns themselves were considered the equal of an infantry regiment's Colours - not to be abandoned and left for the enemy. Spiking the guns would be acceptable to satisfy honour, but your enemy should get victory points for this as well.Good points and definitely a fair compromise for the reasons you mentioned. I'm wondering if BFC has identified this as something worth fixing in their plans for the future? In the meantime, as already suggested, it looks like redefining "interdiction" by firing a few rounds onto friendlies may be the only way to break this bond and avoid heavier losses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kinscherf Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Hey it's Kinch here .. designer of Trig 29. I agree with Michael. Historically, crews tended to stay with their guns to prevent capture. The more expensive the weapon system the more they wanted to hold on to it - e.g. 88mm vs MG-34. Once an ATG runs out of ammo it only has tactical value as a diversion or if it could be supplied. The crews in a hopeless situation would head for the hills. Without a fallback position or cover to hide in their fate was grim. This was true on on the Eastern Front too. A captured fuctioning gun has value. But not tactically as modeled currently. Although it would be nice to have control of the crews, I am not sure it would (or should) swing the result of battles. Interesting ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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