Is it Gamey to use squads of Jeeps for Recon?

[Dave H]

So there I was, perusing this thread about tactics, and I came upon posts by <font size=5>Seanachai</font size=5>, of all people? Is this some bizarro world, where JasonC is writing poetry in the <font size=>penguin</font size=1> threads? The only reason I could see for Seanachai to be here is that he saw the word "Gamey" in the title.

In a current PBEM versus Keke, I found that a tank hunter team hidden in a foxhole close to a road will do an outstanding job on jeeps. Two submachine guns at less than 50 meters provided plenty of firepower.

[ February 25, 2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Dave H ]

[Green Hornet]

I'm amazed at the number of times this question has been asked on various CM message boards. Don't get me wrong Mantra, I think it's a very worthy question.

However, I have never seen a thread where an agreed upon conclusion has ever been drawn. I'm convinced that people will always be firmly standing on opposite sides of the fence over this issue.

I happen to completely agree with Treeburst155's opinion. I think it's gamey to the extreme. There's just no way you are going to convince me that racing jeeps and scout cars within 50 meters of enemy armor for recon purposes was a historically accurate tactic.

I agree that some scouting in an absolute necessity in CM battles but it's my opinion that people seem to confuse controlled, tactically sound scouting with suicide jeep rushes behind KNOWN enemy positions. It's simply taking advantage of CM's current spotting limitations. Explain to me again how a jeep driver is going to race behind enemy lines, take hostile incoming small arms fire, and ultimately get blown to bits and STILL have time to relay all the detailed information back to an HQ unit. Yet, in CM, a player gets this information regardless of whether the jeep crew lives or dies. I can't see how someone can claim this is NOT taking advantage of CM spotting issues.

That being said, generally I don't get too bothered if someone does it to me in a game because I rarely see it work effectively.

[Abteilung]

The minute I see silliness like jeep rushes and the like, I will throw in the towel and go somewhere else for fun. That's the equivalent of "spawn camping" to me (WWIIOnline'ers can empathize with me here).

Sure there are limits to what a computer can simulate today, but that is no reason to exploit those shortcomings at the expense of everything the simulation does well; at the expense of your fellow gamers/simmers/grogs.

Then again, I'm just another opinionated name on an internet forum. Everyone is entitled to enjoy the game/simulation as they see fit. Just not at my expense.

=]

[Harry Yeide]

Using jeeps for such recon is not gamey because it was so done by the Recon companies of TD battalions, which often conducted reconnaissance for other outfits. Here is just one incident from my forthcoming book, "The Tank Killers":

"Company B [701st TD Bn] arrived at El Guettar about 1700 hours [on 22 November 1942]. The trees of the oasis were visible to the right, and the Americans reasoned that the enemy had probably placed guns there. Company CO Capt Gilbert Ellmann sent two TD platoons to cover the trees. The men of the reconnaissance platoon continued down the road, manning the .30-caliber machine guns mounted on pedestals in their jeeps, and Edson and 2d Platoon followed. Generally, reconnaissance men depended on their wits to avoid ever having to use their machine guns because practically everything else on the battlefield was better protected than they were.

Recon found ten Italian M13/40 tanks rather suddenly after cresting a small hill. The lead jeep was lost as fire struck the American column, but the crew dashed to safety. Several Italian tanks advanced on the American column. The first M3 in Edson’s platoon smashed the lead tank as it clanked over a rise, but then its gun jammed. The second TD pulled by just in time to destroy the next enemy tank. "

[CJMello]

Originally posted by Treeburst155:

Don't pay any attention to Seanachai. He's a raving lunatic.

About 4 years ago there was a thread on the same topic. There were over 500 posts to the thread. It's a good question.

Using cheap vehicles, crews, bazookas, panzerschrecks, etc. to do "recon by death" is gamey in the extreme. Would you follow an order to drive a JEEP all over an area where you KNOW the enemy is hidden, just to draw fire? If you were the CO would you order somebody to do something like that?

It's actually a rookie tactic IMO. It doesn't work too awfully well, especially in CMBB and CMAK, and it DOES cost him some points that could be spent on something more lethal.

Treeburst155 out.

This was a big topic too when West Front came out on the TS boards. Same issue with jeeps and trucks.