Using tanks to demolish buildings in CMX2 ?

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

Are you speaking about modern armor or WWII armor?

Both. Refer my last paragraph (“were still important”).

[Private Bluebottle]

In Korea, it was a common tactic to drive Centurions through buildings in order to "delouse" them of the DPRK/PRC infantry that were crawling all over them. While basements were rare in Korea, the buildings could be reasonably substantial. I've read no reports of optics/guns being damaged by the tactic.

[V]

Originally posted by Flammenwerfer:

V

This is a quote from Steve-

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

[QB] Flammenwerfer,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Speaking of pretty big abstractions, I was wondering if sewer movement will be addressed in the new build. Will the z-axis go beyond trenches, foxholes, craters...such as basements...?

Depends on the setting, but in theory all of this is possible. However, I think it is a very bad idea to get underground stuff, like sewers, simulated in detail unless the setting is pretty much all about that. It is a real bitch to pull off underground and above ground stuff from a user interface standpoint </font>

[Wartgamer]

I have the Chobham reports for several captured german tanks. They do not list any shear pins or make any mention of them (they have equipment lists). In many tanks, there is not only a primary traversing mechanism, but a backup. There are also take offs so that the commander has an indicator of turret orientation.

All of these would need a shear pin? What about elevation? It also would need a shear pin?

In an electric traverse, its really an electric motor running a gearbox and that is what is rotating the turret. If this stripped (or had a shear pin), you would more than likely just replace the whole gear-motor.

Many tanks mention a turret lock and elevation lock mechanism. The turret is rotated forward and a pin is put in place.

If nothing else, a large jolt can screw up the precision setting of the weapon or throw the gyrostabilizer off. tanks have to be careful where they go. Getting stuck or even tipped over (shermans) negates the tank for the rest of the battle.

In Italy, three Tigers were lost through basements. I forget where I read that.

[gibsonm]

Do they list spark plugs or clutch plate springs? Shear pins are small parts not a complete assembly in themselves. Depending on the size of the turret (weight etc.) they can be pretty small. e.g. in a smallish AC turret they can be about 5mm in diameter. In a tank up to 10 - 15mm (remember the turret is not designed to encounter larger degrees on resistance whilst traversing so the pin has to be thick enough not to snap needlessly but can’t be so big that it survives and the rest of the traverse mechanism fails - it is designed to be an “easily” replaced point of failure).

Much easier to carry three or four of these (in the gunner’s pocket say) than multiple electric motors. The idea is to field replace these and negate the need for return to workshops.

Usually you remove the turret traverse gearbox and replace the shear pin within it.

Hand traverse have their own, smaller shear pins built in too but normally there is no need to replace them (unless you are actually using it when you have the barrel strike) because pressure is not being applied, the manual backup is merely “following” the power unit.

Travel locks are almost standard. That way you can lock the gun in position without having the gunner sitting there whilst the tank is on a train or whatever and continually adjusting the gun’s location (often need the engine running too to provide the power to the power traverse / elevation gear.

[Wartgamer]

Hand traverse goes through a gearbox like most any turret traverse. One of the principals of gearboxes is that they allow increase in torque transmission, but thye do not like to be 'back-driven'.

So for early tanks with hand traverse, the same problem would be there.

I am not saying that shear pins were not used, in many vehicles/applications I know they were. I just have never read of any report where it mentions them in connection with turret traverse.

An application of a shear pin was in some half track tensioner designs. If a newbie put too much stress on the track, the pin would shear and save the track pins being the function.

If they were used, I wonder if AP or large HE strikes could also shear them? Take the Tiger I turret getting a AP shot that strikes its outer edge along the front turret armor. This translates to a torque and impulse to the turret traversing mechanism. Even though the turret traverse is a hydraulic motor, it still goes through a gearbox.

In any case, rolling through buildings is very hollywood. Even running over tree stumps, antitank guns, etc is taking risk with running gear, gun/turret functioning.

Edit: The Tiger I is described as using a an overload clutch within its turret traverse gearbox, so in this case, you are wrong.

[ March 23, 2005, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

Hand traverse goes through a gearbox like most any turret traverse. One of the principals of gearboxes is that they allow increase in torque transmission, but thye do not like to be 'back-driven'.

So for early tanks with hand traverse, the same problem would be there.

Sure if the hand traverse is the primary system. If its the secondary then the hand wheel will just spins because the primary system is doing the work and the gunner’s hand is not on the hand wheel applying any pressure. I’ve sat in a turret and watched it spin as I’ve used the power traverse.

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

Edit: The Tiger I is described as using a an overload clutch within its turret traverse gearbox, so in this case, you are wrong.

Ah, so now “almost all” (which is what I wrote) translates to “every single AFV every created”?

I think I’ll give up trying to have conversations with you.

Good Bye

[Wartgamer]

That would be best perhaps.

But, the point is that many people with modern military experience, including myself should be wary of using that experience with WWII technology.