doomonyou Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I am pretty new to these forums, so perhaps this has been noted previously, but I have had several occasions where a well positioned soviet pillbox (regular quality) will open up during an Axis Assault on say an axis half track. and by god if the halftrack doesn't win the slugging match most of the time. It seems like any fire from the front goes right in that view slit and hits each occupant in the eye. Has anyone else noticed that relatively light axis units will slug it out with anti-tank weapon fortifications and knock them the F#$% out regularly? Come to think of it, I think my anti-tank guns in simple pits will regularly get off more shots than heavy fixed fortifications, and the guns can hide better. :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I haven't had the pleasure of losing Russian pillboxes to halftracks yet. On the other hand, every Russian pillbox I have seen in CMBB has had a lifespan measured in seconds when an AFV spots it. As JasonC (I think) pointed out recently, use trenches instead of pillboxes. They're cheaper, much more likely to offer some protection, and did I mention they're cheaper! Someone should create a mod for the Russian pillbox with a big bright bullseye centered on the firing slit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three_Oh_Eight Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I've noticed this as well; in my case it's been light, mg armed armored cars tearing them up. Anybody know what the modelling deal is? Is a pillbox not what I think it is vis-a-vis real protection of the occupants from direct fire? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Hi Guys, Jason's post on a previous thread was relating to MG wooden bunkers compared to MG42's in trenches/foxholes. In this case i presume the original poster refers to Soviet 45mm Anti-Tank concrete pillboxes? If so the pillbox would normally come out on top against any light German Armour. The pillbox has ranged firing so the chance to hit is increased over any other AT gun (Unless boresighted with a TRP), once it hits it is sure to come out on top in any one-on-one situation. If the German light AFV's are numerous the Germans can then increase their chance to KO the pillbox with one or 2 losses. I have seen Soviet concrete pillboxes survive multiple hits and penetrations - up to 10 per turn and still survive, however at this stage the crew will start to panic - if the pressure is kept up the pillbox will eventually abandon. I have not seen any instances where a single light AFV or halftrack wins a duel with a pillbox, if it does happen i would put it down to bad luck, unless anyone has seen it happen on a regular basis ? All the best CDIC [ February 22, 2003, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Captitalistdoginchina ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 The gun in the Russian pillboxes are very weak AT weapons. The 45 can penetrate the -flanks- of early German tanks at range. But even the thinnest (Pz IIs, Pz IIIGs) have enough front armor (35mm or so, or slope) to bounce most rounds at all but point blank range. Meanwhile, the replies will always find the firing slit eventually. Firing slit hits can do "no significant damage" or just cause a crew loss sometimes, but mostly they lead to bail-out. Even 20mm can be enough, and with high accuracy and ROF, finds the slit faster. The 76mm bunker, in turn, does not have the long divisional gun, with decent AT capability. Instead it is a little infantry gun, OK for tossing HE at infantry but hopeless against tanks. The only thing either can actually KO is half tracks and armored cars - super thin stuff. And those just don't have to expose themselves. It is pointless to have a gun in a pillbox that can't kill without flank shots, because it loses all stealth and thus never gets flank shots. Put a 45mm ATG in a trench instead, and the trench will be unspotted until anyone gets within 175m. The gun will be unspotted essentially forever if it doesn't fire. And won't be spotted beyond 500m even while firing, beyond a vague sound contact. That is the way to live through replies - not being seen. Concrete doesn't help, and the way the game models it all gun-infantry type stealth disappears. Bunkers are essentially "vehicles" for spotting purposes, and therefore effectively without camo. The German pillboxes (while expensive) have some usefulness, because at least the guns in them can kill typical main battle tanks (in the case of the 88mm, any tank). They still get spotted, and people can still avoid them. But they can't just park with front facing beyond penetration range and toss rounds until they find the firing slit. They die to the replies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomonyou Posted February 22, 2003 Author Share Posted February 22, 2003 that is precisely what I needed to know... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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