ROQC is back much improved - testers wanted

[atiff]

Originally posted by Robert Olesen:

It's so easy to come up with sexy German campaign suggestions. I'm interested in good suggestions for Soviet campaigns.

Here's a couple of ideas:

Red Star, White Star: command a lend-lease tank platoon (start with Stuarts in Jan 43 or Shermans in Jun 43?) from mid-war to the end (also adaptable to British lend-lease vehicles under a different campaign name)

Through the Ranks (either nationality): Start with a single infantry platoon, and try to rise through the ranks to command a battalion by war's end. Would require some special rules (such as: At the end of each battle all favour awards are doubled (so as to be able to buy more troops more easily), never have more supporting points than your core force (so first battles are small), etc)

Hammers and Eggshells (either nationality): command a platoon of tank destroyers (or any non-turreted AFV) from 1942 to war's end. Special rules: for all battles, set the AI's force type to Combined Arms (so that AI should always have some tanks)

What do you think?

[Robert Olesen]

Red Star, White Star is :cool: - upgrades and core force limited to other US lend-lease vehicles. Perhaps use a platoon with US halftracks.

What would be a good name for a similar campaign using British vehicles?

Through the ranks is an interesting twist. I'll give it some thought.

I have a campaign starting with 4 SU-76, and another (German) starting with 4 Panzerjäger I, but there's room for more.

I have introduced a custom campaign concept, where you follow a unit through a - more or les - historical series of battles. Basically, you use the experience and favor rules and as much of the rest as is appropriate, and customize as much as you like of the battle settings. My first attempt is named Panzergruppe Guderian and runs from June to December 1941. Stalingrad (from August 42 to February 43) is another obvious one. Are there any good candidates for Soviet custom campaigns?

[atiff]

Originally posted by Robert Olesen:

Red Star, White Star is :cool:

I can't claim credit for the name, saw it on a book somewhere.

I have introduced a custom campaign concept, where you follow a unit through a - more or les - historical series of battles.

SNIP

Are there any good candidates for Soviet custom campaigns?

I can't think of anything except than the big Soviet offensives - Bagration especially might be interesting, maybe the Kharkhov area as it swapped hands like four times.

Maybe for short time-scale campaigns (over a couple of months) you could use the basically same rules except swap "month" for "week" in the dice roll for next battle. This would require a modified spreadsheet showing weeks, and modified Operational Orders table broken down into weeks. Quite doable, though, I think.

Also, I know a bit more about the Med theatre than I do the Eastern Front, so if you need a hand for a CMAK version of the campaign in the future, just holler.

[atiff]

double post

[ August 23, 2003, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: atiff ]

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by atiff:

Also, I know a bit more about the Med theatre than I do the Eastern Front, so if you need a hand for a CMAK version of the campaign in the future, just holler.

Good to know

I probably will. This campaign concept shouldn't be difficult to port to CMAK.

[Sardaukar]

How about "Kat Killer" Campaign Using only SU/ISU vehicles ? Playing as Tank Destroyer/SPG unit through war as Soviets ?

Cheers,

M.S.

[Robert Olesen]

I have made one for Soviet SPG/AG tanks. "Cat Killer" is a good concept, limited to Tank Destroyers. As far as I can determine, the SU-85 appears in September 1943 for the first time.

Does anyone know where I can find a list of all available units together with their availability dates in CMBB? Some good TO&E sites for this period would be nice too.

[atiff]

I remember seeing information like this somewhere, maybe it was the Strategy Guide? Unfortunately, my copy didn't make the trip to Taiwan with me. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

[Robert Olesen]

The sample unit data charts from the strategy guide do not contain availability information.

But I found a unit availability chart by mike8g at cmmods.com and Chris's unit spreadsheet with availability info here.

There are some TO&E sites around, but at least one requires payment. And I dont really need the complete TO&E - my main interest is availability of equipment for different division types, as the game doesn't do that for you (you can e.g. buy any armor with unchanged rarity value for any division type). So, I was hoping that someone couldprovide me with a good source of info (being lazy, I suppose )

[atiff]

Where is the chart at cmmods.com? I can't find it.

The spreadsheets are useful, but not what I remember seeing. I have seen a graphic display (maybe this is the thing at cmmods) which has boxes colour-coded for availability of each unit, etc.

As to TOE, and units per division, etc, I guess you are trying to say "you are not allowed to purchase 15 of these tanks and four of these guns as there are not that many in your division", yes? You might be able to get around it in the following fashion.

Think of the unit rarity as the likelihood of having such a unit in your division (where each unit consists of usually 4 of that weapon/vehicle). If you have one of that unit, the chances of having more of the same are reduced (rarity increased), and are probably related to (making the maths easy) rarity multiplied by one step for each two (30%, doubled rarity = 60%, tripled rarity = 90%, etc). This is sort of the way I think of the rarity values given by the game.

Of course, the chances of you getting all of that unit are not good at company level, but you could probably imagine getting things in twos (single weapons not likely except in the case of arty spotters, remember ROQC takes no account of pre-battle casualties like BCR does)

So you could then work off the tables you already have. Say you roll up your Rarity Limit as 30%. You want to buy some tanks with rarity 20%, ie, not too common in your division. You could purchase two (each effectively 20% rarity each), but not any more (the third and fourth would be effective rarity 2 x 20% = 40%, above your limit). After buying the two tanks you are allowed, you decide to buy some HMG's. For you division, they are rarity 10%. With a 30% limit, you could then buy 6 of them (first two are effective 10%, sedond two are effective 20%, third two are effective 30%) after that they break your limit. Note during purchase, they don't actually cost you more points, it is just a way of putting a limit on things that are not common.

Of course this adds some thought and a little off-the-cuff calculation when you make your purchases, but not too hard I think, and I think it gives a practical limit without a lot of research. Comments?

[Robert Olesen]

I'mnot sure if I can give you a direct link to that spreadsheet at cmmods, but do a search there for "availability" and you should get it.

I was thinking of simpler stuff, like you should not be allowed to add a KingTiger to your infantry company from a standard infantry division. Or restricting availability of vehicles for mountain divisions. Or an interesting question: How often did armour fight together with ordinary foot infantry - is it out of the question to add a tank to an infantry core force?

The game does not differentiate like this, and it does not even change the rariry (e.g. it is conceivable that a Tiger was a lot more rare with a Mountain division type than with a Mechanized division type). I can understand that they might have decided to prioritize this down, as it can be a lot of work.

This would come out in the rules as a set of guidelines for specific nationality /division type combinations. It may be too much work, as the possible number of combinations is quite large. And given the current player base, it might not be worth the effort. But it would make for more interesting campaigns.

[atiff]

Originally posted by Robert Olesen:

Or an interesting question: How often did armour fight together with ordinary foot infantry - is it out of the question to add a tank to an infantry core force?

The game does not differentiate like this, and it does not even change the rarity

Yes, this is an interesting point. Often, tank units and infantry divisions did fight together. I'm no expert, but this was probably less true for the Germans than other nations. The US did it a lot, and the Soviets too.

The Germans often had support from assault guns and the like in the later war, earlier on 41-42 maybe not quite so much (assault guns not as common, and tanks on the offensive not usually fighting with leg infantry). When the Germans were having to defend, tanks often got thrown into the line to beef up positions or make counterattacks, and you fought with whatever was at hadn, I guess.

I don't think it is too bad, after all it's only a game. Mixing it up give a bit of fun.

[Robert Olesen]

It's not because I want to be restrictive, it's because I would like to give some guidance on what's proper and what's not. And limitations like this add to the challenge (for some people).

And you can ofc. buy anything you like within a particular battle. I'm thinking core force here.

[atiff]

Well, in the case of "what's proper" I already play like that as I like the history and re-enactment. Just leave it up to the people themselves.

[Robert Olesen]

Started a campaign myself with a platoon of StuG IIIB in June 41, Central region, and go an exploit

The terrain is heavily wooded and hilly, so the exploitation force has to go up this one road. Unfortunately, I forgot to get some engineers, and the road is - ofc. - mined with AT mines. There is a detour, but it goes uncomfortably close to the enemy held flags.

Oh well. Live an learn.

v0.95 is due soon with the central and northern regions added. I expect this version to pretty much hold water, leaving the addition of the Finns and the Finnish region before 1.0. It's time for me to play this baby for a while

[Robert Olesen]

v0.95 is out at the usual place. Here's the changelog:

Northern and central region added.

The tables for choosing operational orders have been modified somewhat, and now differentiate between different force types.

Extended campaign variant introduced.

Time of day added as a parameter.

Core force upgrades changed to include rarity.

Favor calculation modified for Soviet core forces to reflect the habitual Soviet disregard for own losses.

A few other minor updates, including a revision of the fitness table.

This time I included the suggested campoaigns in the example spreadsheet.

As usual, no need to not continue an existing campaign.

[atiff]

Looks good, Rob. Haven't had a chance to try them out yet, still trying to find some time to play that Blackshirt Legion battle I was telling you about. Working 14 hour (incl commute) days at the moment, so not much time for CM....

[Robert Olesen]

14 hours :eek:

Take your time, and thanks for the warning.

For the record, my exploit turned out to be very easy. I'm wondering if these battles are too easy. But then I did get lucky with the dice and this is June 41. I cleaned out the Russkies that were in the way and rolled the armor across the map, except that one of the HT's got stuck. My fault, really. Still, I netted the max 60 Favor without problems. Didn't get much experience for my tanks, as opposition was light.

The next one is an attack in a town, so more of a challenge, but the Russkies are still very short on ammo. I guess I should take full advantage of my luck while it lasts Still june and same terrain.

[atiff]

Yes, things soon change. In the beginning it is easier, but as your player rank improves to Veteran and beyond the fights get much tougher. Especially when you start having to do attacks against +75% opposition with -10% yourself.

So far I think my campaign has been a reasonably accurate depiction of the Axis attacking phase (although I did manage to have a rather easy winter '41/42). It will be interesting to see what happens when we have to start defending a lot more in '43 and beyond. With maybe +75% for AI we will be facing odds of 4-1 or more a lot, I think.

[Robert Olesen]

I have tightened the rules for Exploit and Retreat battles, to make them more difficult and hopefully also more challenging. I'l post the changes here, so that you can start using them.

4.3 Preparing the Battle in the Editor

in the Battle Parameter screen

c. Victory flags:

i. If you have a retreat battle, set large flags to 0 and small flags to 1 for each 150 meter map height, rounded off (e.g. 4 flags for a 640 height map)

ii. For all other battle types, turn victory flags off (set both values to 0).

in the Map Editor

b. Generate a random map using parameters 16, 19, 20 and 21.

If you have an Exploit battle, you must have a road running from your map edge to the enemy map edge. It can enter and/or exit at a map side if the exit point is not more than 5 tiles from the corner. If you don?t have such a road on the map you can either edit one into the map (if it?s close, and don?t make the map easier for yourself) or generate another map. Use the first map that?s suitable. This is the road that your exploitation force will use.

c. If you have an Exploit battle, enter Preview mode and set up the exploitation force on the entry road. Load infantry in their transports and hook guns up to their transports, so they?re ready to roll. You then need to make sure that there is no LOS from your exploitation force to the enemy half of the map. You will most likely need to edit the map to accomplish this, either by lowering the elevation of the area where they set up or by walling them in with forests. It doesn?t have to be pretty unless you?re fuzzy about things like this. After all, this fix wouldn?t have been necessary if the game had allowed you to import reinforcements with a map into a quick battle. The area you?re editing is off limits to the rest of your force during the battle. You cannot set these forces up there, nor move them there, and if they rout into this area you must move them out at the first opportunity.

d. If you have a Retreat battle, enter Preview mode and distribute the victory flags evenly along the enemy side of the map. Set them roughly midway between the map edge and the edge of the visible setup zone ? it doesn?t have to be very precise. The purpose of these flags is spread out the enemy setup, so that you have less of a chance for a clear run to the other side. Be sure to set them up on the proper side of the map ? in a Retreat the Axis side is East and the Allied side is West, and the editor does not switch the setup zones around when you switch the friendly map edges around.

e. Click on the ?Setup Zones? button and remove all setup zones.

4.5.2 Play

Exploiting units must follow the exit road and use this road for exiting at the enemy map edge. They are allowed to move around an enemy minefield located on the road if you are unable to clear it in time, and to leave the road to defend them selves if attacked, but they must get back to the road as soon as possible. These guys have orders to move on as quickly as possibly, not to fight your battle.

In a Retreat battle all your units must exit anywhere along the enemy map edge. The QB generator does not allow for exit zones either, so you?ll have to manually keep track of where the units are supposed to exit.

I hope that helps. I'll look at the player experience levels later and even out the differences a bit.

Ignore the reference to guns in the exploitation force for the moment

[Robert Olesen]

Version 0.96 is out. I have had lots of good testing and it's getting close to 1.00 now. That doesn't mean that I couldn't use more testing, however

Changelog from v0.95:

· Military ranks used instead of CM experience levels to simulate the player difficulty level. If you are transferring from the system used in the previous release, equate Conscript with Private, and so on up to Elite/Colonel.

· Handicap tables and promotion rules adjusted to provide a more even flow through the difficulty levels.

· Rules for Exploit and Retreat battles tightened to make them more challenging, including the handicap modifiers.

· Motorized infantry introduced as a possible exploitation force.

· Favor has been completely redone. It is now much simpler, more intuitive and better balanced.

· Fitness of the enemy force added as a parameter.

· The core force example has been changed to use a mixed core force.

· Favor cost for die roll modifications decreased.

· Casualty base revised to differentiate between towed and mounted guns.

· Experience update formula changed to an average, as this is more straightforward and flexible.

[Robert Olesen]

ROQC version 0.97 has got pretty much all the stuff I envisioned, so I expect the next version to be 1.0 after a suitable stabilization period.

Get it at the usual place

It has the Finnish regon and an automatic battle generator which I expect you'll love. The only snag is that you need to be able to use the spreadsheet in order to make it work. It gives you a page containing all the relevant setup info with basically just one click.

I took the opportunity to add a few other things I have been considering for some time, so that it would be pretty much complete. But I expect that a bit of balancing is still needed, so I'll let it simmer for a period, probaby a couple of weeks.

The changes are:

- Finnish region added.

- One Click battle setup . Spreadsheet updated with automatic generation of the data required for setting up a battle, eliminating most of the need for consulting the rules while setting up a battle.

- Favor limits for your CO in determining experience gains increased. Favor limit for negative experience of HQ?s changed from -10 to 0.

- Promotion and Demotion now occurs after three very good or very bad battles, not four, and the promotion limit now scales with the maximal amount of Favor you can get.

- Tree coverage table changed slightly to reduce probability of extreme results.

- "S" column of Operational Order table corrected to get more Attack and Hold orders

- Returning Replacement table adjusted.

- Rules for easier upgrading of obsolete units added.

- HQ bonus abilities can now be rolled for every time you pass an experience value divisible by 10, not just the first time.

- Experience adjusted to allow for more rapid experience gain for infantry.

- Unit classifications added to provide a more balanced experience update.

- Extended Campaign variant removed

The only major missing feature is the remaining nationalities (minor axis allies, polish, partisans), but I have a feeling that the demand for these will be small.

[ September 19, 2003, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

[Robert Olesen]

I had to make a few error corrections in the spreadsheet. Do a new download if you made one before reading this (not applicable to people who got the 0.98a spreadsheet via email).

There is one change you should be aware of: You must specify Battle Type in the parameters screen in the editor. The setup sheet helps you remember this.

[Robert Olesen]

I'm getting very close to version 1. It isn't quite ready yet, so I have made the files available directly instead of on the usual web page.

Get them here:

Excel spreadsheets

Rules in MS Word format

Rules in pdf format

This is version 1.00a. Version 1.00 will be published in ca. one week and will be almost identical to these. I'll be fixing errors and I have one small balancing issue that needs to be decided.

The reason for the tight deadline is that I have been offered publication on a magazine CD in France (in French), with a relatively large number of CM players amongst its readers . That's perfect timing, the campaign is now ready to go public.

The biggest change from 0.97 is a fully automated spreadsheet with bells and whistles. It really makes things a lot simpler. Highly recommended

[Specs]

Bumped for the night shift, because ROQC puts the fun back into playing against the AI.