Trees

[Sanok]

Can someone help me out with understanding the CM concept of trees? I understand that things are abstracted, but it can get very frustrating nonetheless.

I understand scattered trees are just a few trees here or there, with some brush. Are tall pines the same as scattered trees, just taller and a different kind of tree? Just what is the CM definition of woods?

Woods are extremely frustrating to me. I imagine woods as a whole lot of trees and brush that obstruct an LOS very easily. That doesn't seem to be the case with CM. It gets really old seeing an LOS go through forty meters of woods to spot infantry that's hiding, not moving, and not firing.

Am I just not understanding the CM abstraction of woods or is their abstraction simply unrealistic, needing a whole lot of improvement?

[von Lucke]

Time of year makes a difference. Woods / Pines / Scattered Trees all thin out in the Autumn months, and even more so in Winter.

In Spring / Summer, LOS should be something like 25 / 35 / 55m for the aforementioned terrain types.

In Winter, it's 65 / 35 / 130m (Pines, being "evergreens", stay the same).

[Sanok]

Originally posted by von Lucke:

Time of year makes a difference. Woods / Pines / Scattered Trees all thin out in the Autumn months, and even more so in Winter.

In Spring / Summer, LOS should be something like 25 / 35 / 55m for the aforementioned terrain types.

In Winter, it's 65 / 35 / 130m (Pines, being "evergreens", stay the same).

Hmm. I didn't even think about the seasons affecting an LOS through trees. However, I'm still not clear on how CM defines "woods." I still say, that woods should easily obstruct an LOS. Twenty-five meters through woods in the spring and summer seems like a lot, especially when the units aren't moving or firing.

[86smopuim]

Originally posted by Sanok:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by von Lucke:

Time of year makes a difference. Woods / Pines / Scattered Trees all thin out in the Autumn months, and even more so in Winter.

In Spring / Summer, LOS should be something like 25 / 35 / 55m for the aforementioned terrain types.

In Winter, it's 65 / 35 / 130m (Pines, being "evergreens", stay the same).

Hmm. I didn't even think about the seasons affecting an LOS through trees. However, I'm still not clear on how CM defines "woods." I still say, that woods should easily obstruct an LOS. Twenty-five meters through woods in the spring and summer seems like a lot, especially when the units aren't moving or firing. </font>

[Michael Emrys]

Hopefully, LOS rules will get a rework in the engine rewrite. Ideally, normal haze under the existing meteorlogical conditions will be taken into account as well as dust, either raised by wind or vehicular movement or by explosions. LOS should certainly degrade with distance, even in ideal conditions.

Michael

[Sanok]

There have been times, where I've been so frustrated with how far an LOS can be traced through *woods*, that I almost stopped playing the game. Right now, to soothe my frustration, when I play a QB or create my own scenario, I use light trees and night.

[dieseltaylor]

Woods in Europe in the Second World War would almost certainly be managed woods - coppiced , thinned, grazed by pigs, a source of firewood.

Building material extracted as single trees without block-felling whole swathes of wood.

We are so used to woods being tangled unmanaged areas that I can see why the problem might arise in relating our conceptions to LOS distances.

Modern France is great for still utilising its woodland despite the advent of plastics etc for manufacturing.

Dense woodland obviously did exist - normally in less populated areas or where extraction was difficult but in general woods were more utilised and less dense.

{I take an interest in eco-friendly sustainable resources - you would never have guessed)