B.B.Toys Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Perhaps Borg sighting isn't completely unrealistic after all given the practice of using tracer bullets (fired from squad MG34s and MG42s) not only for aim correction but also to indicate to friendly forces, including buttoned-up tanks, where they should be firing. I have in front of me a picture of a SS veteran loading tracers on an ammo belt for a MG34/MG42 during the Battle of Kharkov in 'Jan 43. The process of manually replacing every fifth bullet or so in an ammo belt with a tracer bullet must have been very time-consuming esp. given field conditions but it would make sense if it served such a dual purpose. Does anyone know how common this practice was on the Eastern front over the years? Did the Soviets also use tracer bullets to coordinate group targeting? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Originally posted by BBToys: ... The process of manually replacing every fifth bullet or so in an ammo belt with a tracer bullet ...What makes you think they replaced any bullets? I'd rather say they simply loaded the empty belts, using as many tracers they had available or felt proper. I remember this from my own time in the army. The platoon's 7.62mm weapons were two LMGs and two ranging guns (mounted on top of the ATGs). The ranging guns were semi-automatic and used tracers only. In live fire exercises the ranging guns were usually used instead of the main gun, primarily in order to save money. The problem was that 7.62mm ammo was available in packs for "rifle" squads only. A rifle squad equipped mostly with 7.62mm assault rifles and the odd LMG, that is. What we wanted was close to a 1:1 relation between tracers and regular FMJ, what we got was 1:20. Needless to say we rarely had more than every ten round a tracer for the MGs. Cheers Olle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Unlike what you see in the movies tracers are not that easy to see during the day. At night they light up like a laser but during the day you only really notice them if you happen to be looking in the right direction or if they have been going for a while. They were mainly for aim adjusting but with a secondary role of target spotting, but like I said they don't really do that well during the day. Trying to spot tracers in a buttoned up tank without any knowledge as to the general direction to look is just not going to happen. Even with the refinements in modern vision blocks (periscopes), visibility sucks. Distant objects are distorted and you have no peripherial vision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.B.Toys Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 These are good points gentlemen. I did not mean to make an assertion since I have no relevant practical experience here. In fact I was simply guessing from the photograph about the use of tracer bullets. The SS soldier was was loading a MG ammo belt in front of him and has taken care to leave a blank spot after every five bullets. I was assuming that he would then stuff those spaces with tracer bullets (there's a pile of bullets in front of him; can't tell whether they are tracers or not). Perhaps someone can comment on how unusual or common the use of tracers was the eastern front. I'd be curious to know. I don't know about the visibility of WWII tracers (as compared to more modern ones) in daylight but I agree that that would have an impact on their use beyond aim correction by the specific weapon-wielder. I don't remember much night fighting around Kharkov so assumed that they could be seen by troops in day time fighting. And if infantry can see them then the MG gunner, driver and the commander of (esp. German) tanks facing in the right general direction ought to be able to make them out too given some of the better optics aboard. This assumes that they were trying to spot tracers as a way of cooperating with infantry to locate enemy resistance and AT gun emplacments. Does anyone have information about whether there was such a practice in WWII? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortlund Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 To my knowledge tracers were common. More experienced units tended to discontinue the use of tracers though, especially at night where using tracers is about the same thing as yelling "here I am". I've read accounts of soldiers putting sacks over the muzzles of their weapons to dampen the muzzle flashes. I dont know if you have fired a machine gun yourself, but lets just say that if you are the gunner, those tracers dont to squat to improve your aim. It is more like -aim, shoot, reaquire target, aim, shoot. The idea is that the observer/leader observes the tracers and calls out corrections to the gunner. But at normal combat ranges (up to 700m) the observer can tell where the bullets are hitting from other visible signs. Dirt cascades where bullets strike, brushes and small trees being cut down etc. My own personal opinion about tracers is that while they look cool, especially at night, they serve no real purpose, and they are outright idiotic to use at night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by Sgtgoody: Unlike what you see in the movies tracers are not that easy to see during the day. At night they light up like a laser but during the day you only really notice them if you happen to be looking in the right direction or if they have been going for a while. They were mainly for aim adjusting but with a secondary role of target spotting, but like I said they don't really do that well during the day. Trying to spot tracers in a buttoned up tank without any knowledge as to the general direction to look is just not going to happen. Even with the refinements in modern vision blocks (periscopes), visibility sucks. Distant objects are distorted and you have no peripherial vision. I think this depends on the weapo too. We use to be able to see the .50 Cal tracers during the day easily. Big fat rounds appearing to move slowly toward the target. God how I loved that sight. . . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 The tracers on tank rounds are quite impressive as well. They look like flaming tennis balls streaking down range. For light machine guns though, tracers are the most visible from directly behind the gun. The only real benefit is to the crew and their section leader who will be spotting for them. As for the gunner Hortlund is right, you don't really notice the tracers yourself. On bigger guns, like the .50, you use different technique for firing so you can actually use the tracer for that purpose. Standard procedure if you want to use tracer for target spotting is to up the ratio. Squad and team leaders often load 1/2 tracer to ball or even 1/1. Remember though, tracers work both ways, especially at night. [ January 23, 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Sgtgoody ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.