Whats you're favorite late war Soviet Tank or Tank destoyer ?

[Other Means]

i thought i'd revive this thread as i did a test last night. i'm playing 02/45 vs a friend. we're keeping everything to not more than 30% rarity. so basically, i'm expecting to meet Panthers.

so as a worst case test i did an open map. flat with lanes for testing. 850m head to head.

against a Panther A - G the clear winner was the SU-100. 1 v 1 the SU-100 won ~ 65% of encounters [that's being conservative. i should have wrote it down]. which surprised me. the IS-2 ROF was just too low too have a chance [even with a crack crew] and the T34-85 just bounced.

2 vs 2 the SU-100 won as well. one thing i noticed was that even when penatrated the SU-100 kept firing. it seemed to have a much lower effect on the crew & cower was a lot less evident.

the SU-100 has no machine gun, which is possibly it's worst feature. however, with the availablity of shreks in this timeframe i don't want to be doing too much close in infantry killing with them. but with a 40 shell HE load i think they may do an admirable job. really makes you miss the T34M41 tho.

therefore i suspect in hull down overwatch for your T34-85's these are going to be real hard to beat. especially as the top front armour was blue.

P.S.

actually i've just had a thought. i was thinking of using the IS-2 as overwatch, but it doesn't look suited to the role. however it may suit it's intended role as a breakthrough tank. hmm. i can feel another test coming on. i've basically gone for T35-85 with SU-100 as overwatch, expecting to lose a few of them to ATG's/shreks etc. maybe i would have been better with the IS-2 in that role? kind of all eggs in one basket but still.

too late now. i may test the theory in another battle.

[Ex Bellator]

I think the SU-85M version can do the same job as the SU-100 but at a cheaper cost. It's upper armour is also virtually invulnerable, and it's gun usually has a good tungsten loadout as well as more ammunition for other types.

Might be worth considering.

[Other Means]

i'll give it a go when i get home. not for this battle though it's got > 30% rarity.

[edit:]

i thought it had the same gun as the T34-85, which was just bouncing off the Panthers? maybe a T round would do some good but not at the long range encounters i'm expecting to be forced in to.

as you know the T round is lighter & therefore loses speed quicker ending up with less P power at range.

[ August 06, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Other Means ]

[Other Means]

i repeated the test tonight & the SU-100, while still seeming the best pick, has < 50% chance using the above params. i wonder if BFC base their random num gen on the date? no? must be me then.

[ August 06, 2003, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Other Means ]

[Ex Bellator]

I did some checking myself and compared the SU-100 and SU-85M. The points difference wasn't as marked as I thought, in fact it is barely worth bothering about. Both these machines can seemingly eat the German cats for breakfast, but the SU-100 can do it at twice the range.

It seems that SU-85Ms can rely on regularly penetrating Tigers frontally at around 750m meters and Panthers at around 500m. An SU-100 can do it at twice those ranges.

The main advantage of the SU-85M is that it carries twice the ammo loadout. The big disadvantage is that it relies on it's Tungsten until close.

They both have the same excellent upper hull armour, and if hull down a German cat will have to get very close to rely on penetrating them frontally, probably less than 300m, although I saw them getting partial penetrations out to 500m.

They are both nice pieces of kit, guaranteed to terminaly trouble anything less than a King Tiger, but on balance I'd agree with Other Means, that the SU-100 is better at long distance Kitty killing by some way. In closer terrain, or against lesser enemy armour, or if needed in more joint AP and AT role, then the 85M may be better.

[Franz Liszt]

I like T34/85 because it was both effective and beautiful.ya know...the best tank in the war

[Other Means]

true the T34-85 is an excellent tank. however any decent player will have a big cat or two on a ridge to give your 85's a good pasting.

as the 85 doesn't really have a chance front to front you need something to take these out. i would recommend the SU-100. ISTM that with normal rarity the Soviet player has a real armour advantage late in the war. the SU-100 is reasonably priced & can take out the Kitties. the T34-85 can take on & beat German meds including StuGs.

add to this good cheap mortars & the Russian squad size advantage PLUS LMG/SMG squad & the war is almost won, comrades.

actually i've not fought enough late war battles to demonstrate this so i'll have to see how this one goes.

[Other Means]

i repeated the tests. variety of ranges from 500 to 1000m.

32 vs 32 SU-100/Panthers. in groups of 2 a side & 3 a side. both with veteran crews, as the Panthers optics are a hinderance with < regular (or verteran i can't remember) crew.

only 5 tests so far but they are coming out ~16 dead Panthers vs ~25 dead SU-100's.

so the Panther is 1.5 times a SU-100. as usual you need numbers. however they cheap vs the Panther, with good bogging characteristics. i'll try a hull down test maybe over the weekend.