Question, Tungsten ammo summer 1942

[slysniper]

How common was Tungsten ammo for the german army in the summer of 1942, I had done some game testing and found that PzIIIj's match up pretty evenly with the KV1's for this time period at the 200 to 400 meter range, but from other sources it appears it should not be such a even match. Then it dawned on me that the pz's might be using special ammo, with the Tungsten round it is a pretty even fight, especially since the PZIII rate of fire is so much faster. The game gives this ammo out pretty freely in the QB purchase to the panzers in this time period.

Any insights as to this being correct as to what might have actually been at the real battles.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by slysniper:

How common was Tungsten ammo for the german army in the summer of 1942, I had done some game testing and found that PzIIIj's match up pretty evenly with the KV1's for this time period at the 200 to 400 meter range, but from other sources it appears it should not be such a even match. Then it dawned on me that the pz's might be using special ammo, with the Tungsten round it is a pretty even fight, especially since the PZIII rate of fire is so much faster. The game gives this ammo out pretty freely in the QB purchase to the panzers in this time period.

Any insights as to this being correct as to what might have actually been at the real battles.

From Jentz' "Panzertruppen", vol. 1, page 243, quoting a report by Pz Regt 33 dated 31 July 1942:

"So long as at least half the Panzers are not equipped with the long 7.5cm KwK.40, an attack and defensive position in open flat terrain is hopeless against Russian KW-1 and T34 tanks. Our own Panzers will be knocked out without firing any shots in return."

...and later:

"The Panzergranatpatrone 40 is no longer fired by the crew because with each round the shell casing sticks or the shell casing ruptures in the gun. This can only be cleared from outside the Panzer by knocking the shell case back out with the cleaning rods. Shell casing ruptures occasionally occur when firing the Panzergranate 38."

A table of fighting ranges in the report says that 5cm PzGr 38 from the L/60 gun penetrates the KV-1 on the turret front only under 100m, superstructure and turret side 100-200m, and hull side up to 300m.

All the best,

John.

[slysniper]

John, the example you typed in is perfect, this is what my understanding was as far as match up in armour for the time frame. Now take that with me testing single kvI's against late PZIIIj's (random as to if they have Tungsten) and placing them front to front at 350 meters apart. Viewed about 60 duels and had over a 40% win factor for the PzIIIj's. I know they believe this game has great modeling of armour and penetration, but that sure doesn't seem right to me, is there others who agree or disagree with me on this.