Russian Training Scenario 315/316 AT in village and city

[Der Alte Fritz]

Greetings Comrades,

Managed to defend the village rather well if I say so myself but made rather hash of the street fighting in the city!

In 315 for the first run of the scenario I left the set-up as it was. The German infantry managed to penetrate the woods on the right of the village and the tanks managed to penetrate right to the centre of the village with two immobilised on the outskirts by mines. All the tanks were finally knocked out by pioneers but only after the Russian position had been pretty heavily bombarded.

The second try was using an ambush technique with the rifle platoon spread out on the right flank with one of the Maxims covering the road. Everyone had an arc set to 100m with over lapping fields of fire, the idea being to stop the German infantry dead but so close that they could not use their artillery. One pioneer platoon was spread out around the flag to counter any breakthrough and the other in the woods on either side of the road with a minefield moved to the house beside the road. These were given 50m arcs and told to hide. The game went pretty much according to plan. The German infantry got pinned down well outside the perimeter and the tanks tried to force their way in down the road. Although they shot up two pioneer sections, the two others and the mines accounted for all the tanks and the a/c around the forward perimeter. So I thought that this was a much better result and the ambush technique really paid off. One thing that I noticed was that the pioneers had to be quite deep in the pines if they wanted to avoid detection. The two that were shot up were too close to the edge.

For 316 Left the set up as it was and gained a tactical victory with the Germans capturing all the buildings up to the main one. My men seemed to do better if you held them towards the rear of the building, let the enemy enter it and then shoot them as they tried to move around inside. If I defended the front perimeter of the building, the tanks simply killed my men from close range. Ran pioneers forward to engage tanks if they got too close. AT rifles shot up one tank. Did not do so well with my own tanks. A Pz IIIJ was shooting up the main building so I ran the T-34 down the street to the corner with an arc set in the direction of the PzIII. As the T-34 came round the corner he fired at a range of 80m at the side of the PzIIIJ – NOTHING. The return fire of the PzIII knocked out the T-34 before he could reload. The T-70 did better and got off a couple of shots before being knocked out. Then pioneers had a go and drove the PzIIIJ off. The final T-70 drove round the corner and shot at the retreating PzIIIJ and killed him! Total score 2 PzIIIJ knocked out, 1 Sdz-250 disabled but by move 25 I had lost most of my AT rifles, HMG and LMG but had half a dozen SMG sections hidden in the rubble around the flag. So I was left with some AT capability but not much. Not sure if I needed to hold my fire until close range within cities but the German infantry seemed to creep forward no matter what I did although I did kill a lot of sections.

cheers

[JasonC]

On 315, only tip to add is use closer arcs for the pioneers. 30m. That way they don't open up until they are in range for their demo charges.

On 316, using the tanks well can make big difference in this one. The idea is to not let him know where any of your tanks are by staying behind the buildings, while your own infantry tells you exactly where his are, all of them. Then you risk the tanks when you can isolate on one enemy vehicle. You try to get it when it is otherwise engaged, e.g. shooting at infantry. And from a flank in the case of the T-70s, obviously. Once you get off a few shots, get back behind cover before more than the single vehicle you went after can get LOS.

One other trick is to keyhole the T-34 on a building, in a place that no enemy vehicles can see, but where there are German infanty. Toss in HE for a minute. Then bushwack tanks they send to get LOS of the T-34, while it just backs away out of LOS again. In other words, the HE threat of the T-34 to his infantry can bait enemy tanks to get too close to your hiding pioneers, or drive past a T-70 showing a flank.

As for the infantry fighting, stay well back, yes. Sometimes I put LMGs and ATRs at the upper front windows, but then hide a while and use short arcs a while. They get spots that way. The SMGs and pioneers belong well back in heavy buildings. Thrown DCs work against infantry too, and will reach across one street.

You have to be willing to move the infantry around, especially to keep solid building between you and enemy tanks - a tactic referred to as "skulking". You want the German infantry forced to fight you straight up inside, with minimal help from their armor. They won't last, they can't afford to trade you all off.

[Chipaev]

For the City Battle (316???):

I found baiting the enemy tanks (especially since it's the AI) with "Shoot and Scoot" to be especially entertaining. I get my tanks into "cubbies" surrounded on all side by buildings and having a nice narrow street leading to it. The narrow street has pioneers on both sides ready to ambush. Shoot, Scoot, Panzer 3 chases, dead Panzer 3 with a satchel charge up his tailpipe. Other than that the odd T-34 round has a good chance of penetrating a P3J and I even managed to kill one with a flank shot from a T-70.

In my experience there are enough infantry and the factories are sturdy enough that I didn't have to worry about running away from the panzers. I just focused on the enemy infantry with my non-pioneer infantry.

[Der Alte Fritz]

My T-34 experience is sounding weirder and weirder. I waited until the lead PzIIIJ was on his own well out in front, sideways on and busy shooting up my infantry on the other side of the square. The T-34 drove round the corner of the square in FAST mode and halted just past the corner. His turret was turned towards the PzIIIJ by using an armour arc and I had TARGETed that particular tank anyway. So the panzer is side onto me with his turret turned away. The T-34 fires at 80m just after stopping and hits the hull with a PENETRATING shot but does not knock him out. Reloading as Panzer turret turns, fires and the T-34 is hit with a ARMOUR FLAKING shot so he is SHOCKED, a crewman killed and the tank PANICS. Panzers next shot kills T-34 stone dead. Perhaps I should HUNT or SHOOT AND SCOOT or should he be buttoned up before I start the attack run? Or perhaps he was just a poor old factory worker who had just driven off the production line!

Just finished reading the "Court of the Red Tsar" about Stalins inner circle. It is a great read and gives a real flavour of the period. Especially Zhukov in 1941 when the country is being over-run, generals are being shot daily and he starts an argument with the Politburo! Incredible.

[JasonC]

On the T-34 incident, you didn't do anything wrong to get that set up, you just got burned by a poor behind armor effect "roll". Side aspects never last beyond 2 shots against anything with a turret. They can occasionally last 3 against a buttoned turretless AFV, but 2 is more common. And 1 is much more frequent against turreted stuff at close range.

Nothing you can do can ensure the behind armor effect of the first penetration will be a kill. It is completely random. When the penetration is marginal and you get partial pens, only about 1 in 4 will be full kills. With full pens it is typically more like 1 out of 2, though it falls against the biggest tanks.

I ran extensive tests of T-34s with T ammo in 1944 against Tigers, side aspect and point blank. Catching them as dead to rights as it is possible to get. The T-34s lost the majority of the fights. Occasionally there were failures to penetrate or partials, but that wasn't the main issue. The main issue was that the full KO chance per penetrating round was only about 1 out of 6. And there simply isn't any way to pump in 4-6 rounds before the thing turns.

If you bring a whole platoon in the Tiger case, you are marginally favored. Against the Pz III, both able to kill, the T-34 is favored. But favored does not mean "wins", it means a bias in the coin toss. Sometimes the coin toss goes against you, just happens.